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Thread: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

  1. #131
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    You still miss the time component

    a tax hike can have a short term increase in revenues and in the long run cause the revenues to decrease

    its really a simple concept that has been proven true time and time again.

    Okay fine you clarified what you meant.

    So you would be in favor in raising taxes if it cost the government revenue, correct?

  2. #132
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Okay fine you clarified what you meant.

    So you would be in favor in raising taxes if it cost the government revenue, correct?
    I oppose tax hikes on those who pay too much

    I prefer far less government and that would not require any tax hikes

    if you are hell bent on hiking taxes they should be hiked on those who need to pay at least some of their costs as citizens.

    and that is not the top 5%

    later



  3. #133
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha View Post
    for most liberals..........anyone accumulating wealth via Capitalism is a criminal.
    .
    While I do not fully meet the definition of a liberal (see below), I certainly stand “for the protection of political and civil liberties; specifically: such a philosophy that considers government as a crucial instrument for amelioration of social inequities”.

    So, as a “semi-liberal” (for lack of a better term), I believe that anyone who hoards resources to the point of being wasteful and to the point of allowing the less fortunate to suffer (via hoarding), is guilty of causing that suffering and thus immoral. In court cases, where there are relevant laws or precedents, those who cause others to suffer are often punished. So, in this sense, the above described hoarders could be considered criminals.

    Capitalism is an economic system, not a political one (see below). Government has always had taxes in order to maintain order, the greater good, etc. Therefore, one can have a capitalistic economic system and a liberal political system, which acts to serve the greater good. Ungoverned Capitalism is not likely something even you (TurtleDude) would find acceptable (this means bad things, including monopolies).

    I also wanted to clear up some common misconceptions. It seems that some are using the terms liberalist and socialist interchangeably. Clearly, as seen in the definition below, the two words do not mean the same thing. While one can have a capitalistic economic system and a liberal political system, one cannot have pure capitalism and pure socialism, as capitalism calls for the ownership and control of production, etc. to be in private hands and socialism calls for it to be in the hands of the community as a whole.

    Please people, I spent some time trying to make these distinctions understandable, so if you don’t understand something please ask. Also, for those of you who are familiar with these concepts, I welcome any helpful additions.

    Capitalism: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/capitalism

    Socialism: a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

    Socialism | Define Socialism at Dictionary.com

    Liberalism: a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties; specifically : such a philosophy that considers government as a crucial instrument for amelioration of social inequities (as those involving race, gender, or class)

    Liberalism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
    Last edited by MusicAdventurer; 07-17-11 at 12:21 AM.

  4. #134
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Originally Posted by Badmutha
    for most liberals..........anyone accumulating wealth via Capitalism is a criminal...


    what a very stupid and untrue comment.

  5. #135
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I oppose tax hikes on those who pay too much

    I prefer far less government and that would not require any tax hikes

    if you are hell bent on hiking taxes they should be hiked on those who need to pay at least some of their costs as citizens.

    and that is not the top 5%

    later
    So you are just being disingenuous when using the buzz word cliches about big government.


    BTW life ain't fair just ask Charles Goodyear.

  6. #136
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Oh I bet there is a rather strong correlation between high earners and high intelligence. Luck has far less to do with it but that erroneous assumption makes it far easier to justify imposing confiscatory taxes on "lucky people" than talented ones.
    I do not doubt that you are "guessing" that high earners are of high intelligence (as I do not see a reference). It is not advisable to make important decisions based on hunches - this leads to error. I am by no means insinuating that the most wealthy of our population do not hold intelligent people; I am only asking for data supporting your argument.

    Also, I know many wealthy people who inherited their wealth or had some significant amount of money to start investing with and I know many people who were born into poverty and have struggled throughout their life as a result. This does not mean that such people are intelligent or not, it only designates a starting environment and an ending monetary result.
    Last edited by MusicAdventurer; 07-17-11 at 12:45 AM.

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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Oh I bet there is a rather strong correlation between high earners and high intelligence.
    does this include thieves?

  8. #138
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    In truth I'd like to be like my fellow citizens corporations (they're citizens too now, correct?) and not pay any taxes.
    Good point man, I don't think many people realize that legally, corporations are considered citizens/people (also a side note .. they get the benefits of being "people", yet not the consequences that a rightful person receives) .. just watched a documentary on this .. very creepy .. can look for it and post it if you like

  9. #139
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I wish you could convince millions of americans that is true
    You talk as if you know that millions of people would prefer to get next to nothing and not work than to have good paying jobs. I have friends who are out of work, newspaper reporter, mortgage broker, telecommunications relay specialist, a housewife whose husband left her with 6 month old twins, a the manager of a health club, an electrical engineer, 2 former small business owners and I can tell you two things I know to be true:

    1. They don't want to be on the dole.

    2. They can't find a job.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  10. #140
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    Re: Do You Want Higher Taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    could you please define "self-made" - do you mean started with $0, $100, $1,000, $10,000? Also, please define "wealthy", $100,000 per year? $1,000,000 per year? Finally, what is you source?
    the source is The Millionaire Next Door, a study of America's millionaires. by Self-Made they mean "did not inherit any portion of their wealth", but are rather first-generation millionaires whose parents were usually middle or lower class.

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    also .. could you please define "vast majority" .. does this mean 51%? because that is a majority .. but so is 95%, so what is it?
    about 85%

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