View Poll Results: If Republicans Pass a smaller Debt Ceiling Increase; What should Democrats Do?

Voters
15. You may not vote on this poll
  • Accept it and continue to work towards the "President's Big Deal"

    8 53.33%
  • Refuse it and "send the economy into default"

    4 26.67%
  • Run out the clock and then pass it in a hurry after Aug 2, to scare Seniors

    3 20.00%
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Thread: If Republicans Offer a Shorter Term Deal

  1. #21
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    Re: If Republicans Offer a Shorter Term Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by makkam View Post
    I just have one question. Who decides the spending cuts and what will they be? I mean, which House?
    It will be the House making the bill - though they might find it better to stick to cuts that were part of the original Biden talks.

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    Re: If Republicans Offer a Shorter Term Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I think you missed the point. I was making fun of your style in the OP.
    then address it. do you have evidence (for example) that all that time Obama spent calling for a "clean" debt ceiling hike he was secretly on the phone with John Boehner urging some kind of major cuts?

  3. #23
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    Re: If Republicans Offer a Shorter Term Deal

    Moderator's Warning:
    If Republicans Offer a Shorter Term DealThe admins cannot edit the poll to change it to "Public" either - sorry.

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    Re: If Republicans Offer a Shorter Term Deal

    well that's unfortunate. I doubt anyone is going to tell us that they voted to scare seniors for political points.




    anywho, it's looking like some version of this may be what happens, Republicans look to be getting ready to go solo:

    Boehner: ‘Get Ready’

    At a closed-door conference meeting this morning, Speaker John Boehner told House Republicans that GOP leaders and the White House remain poles apart as the debt-ceiling deadline looms...

    Boehner, according to sources who were inside of the room, emphasized that moving forward, “We have to make tough decisions to save our country, so get ready to do it.” Others in the GOP leadership, such as House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, reiterated that message, telling members that as the debt-limit impasse continues, Republicans will hustle next week to pass “cut, cap, and balance,” a fiscal-reform package sponsored by the Republican Study Committee (RSC), a leading conservative caucus.

    Under the “cut, cap, and balance” legislation, Congress would agree to increase the debt ceiling by $2.5 trillion (the amount requested by President Obama to get him through the 2012 election), but only if a balanced-budget amendment to the Constitution were approved by two-thirds majorities in both houses and sent to the states for ratification. In addition, the plan calls for significant spending cuts to next year’s budget — more than $100 billion — and a firm cap on federal spending at 18.5 percent of GDP....

    In terms of floor strategy, House GOP leaders said the RSC plan will probably come first; then, pending passage, Republicans will move to consider a related balanced-budget amendment — one that they hope will attract Democrats, whose votes would be needed to pass the amendment should “cut, cap, and balance” find itself curbed in the Senate, where Democrats still hold control.

    Speaking at a press conference after the meeting, Boehner announced as much, telling reporters that “time and again Republicans have offered serious proposals to cut spending and address these issues, and I think it’s time for the Democrats to get serious as well.” Looking ahead, he said that he does not want to “preclude any chance of coming to an agreement,” but with Democrats “unwilling to put a real plan on the table,” he was ready to take action unilaterally....

    Next week, House GOP aides tell us Republicans will be focused on the “cut, cap, and balance” rollout, and then on the balanced-budget amendment. They will largely let Boehner continue to push for cuts as members make a vocal case for fiscal discipline on the House floor. “There really are two people in this conversation, two different voices,” says freshman representative James Lankford (R., Okla.). “One that thinks the crisis is the impending vote and one that thinks the crisis is the debt.”...

    That said, most members are open to raising the debt limit, aides say — as long as they can go back to their districts with, as one staffer puts it, “concrete, heavy blocks of legislation.” Come late July, another aide explains, Republicans want to be able to tell their constituents that they did all they could to enact conservative reforms in a divided government. On Capitol Hill, at least, that pressure appears to be as strong as the pressure for Boehner and Obama to cut a deal.

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    Re: If Republicans Offer a Shorter Term Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    well that's unfortunate. I doubt anyone is going to tell us that they voted to scare seniors for political points.




    anywho, it's looking like some version of this may be what happens, Republicans look to be getting ready to go solo:

    Boehner: ‘Get Ready’

    At a closed-door conference meeting this morning, Speaker John Boehner told House Republicans that GOP leaders and the White House remain poles apart as the debt-ceiling deadline looms...

    Boehner, according to sources who were inside of the room, emphasized that moving forward, “We have to make tough decisions to save our country, so get ready to do it.” Others in the GOP leadership, such as House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, reiterated that message, telling members that as the debt-limit impasse continues, Republicans will hustle next week to pass “cut, cap, and balance,” a fiscal-reform package sponsored by the Republican Study Committee (RSC), a leading conservative caucus.

    Under the “cut, cap, and balance” legislation, Congress would agree to increase the debt ceiling by $2.5 trillion (the amount requested by President Obama to get him through the 2012 election), but only if a balanced-budget amendment to the Constitution were approved by two-thirds majorities in both houses and sent to the states for ratification. In addition, the plan calls for significant spending cuts to next year’s budget — more than $100 billion — and a firm cap on federal spending at 18.5 percent of GDP....

    In terms of floor strategy, House GOP leaders said the RSC plan will probably come first; then, pending passage, Republicans will move to consider a related balanced-budget amendment — one that they hope will attract Democrats, whose votes would be needed to pass the amendment should “cut, cap, and balance” find itself curbed in the Senate, where Democrats still hold control.

    Speaking at a press conference after the meeting, Boehner announced as much, telling reporters that “time and again Republicans have offered serious proposals to cut spending and address these issues, and I think it’s time for the Democrats to get serious as well.” Looking ahead, he said that he does not want to “preclude any chance of coming to an agreement,” but with Democrats “unwilling to put a real plan on the table,” he was ready to take action unilaterally....

    Next week, House GOP aides tell us Republicans will be focused on the “cut, cap, and balance” rollout, and then on the balanced-budget amendment. They will largely let Boehner continue to push for cuts as members make a vocal case for fiscal discipline on the House floor. “There really are two people in this conversation, two different voices,” says freshman representative James Lankford (R., Okla.). “One that thinks the crisis is the impending vote and one that thinks the crisis is the debt.”...

    That said, most members are open to raising the debt limit, aides say — as long as they can go back to their districts with, as one staffer puts it, “concrete, heavy blocks of legislation.” Come late July, another aide explains, Republicans want to be able to tell their constituents that they did all they could to enact conservative reforms in a divided government. On Capitol Hill, at least, that pressure appears to be as strong as the pressure for Boehner and Obama to cut a deal.
    And their constituents will believe them.

    The center probably won't.
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    Re: If Republicans Offer a Shorter Term Deal

    From my point of view, which always seems to be a minority POV, what Id like to have happen is a short term debt increase w/ a few cuts and a few tax loop holes fixed but not much. Just a small deal, enough to get through the next election. What we have now is a stalemate. The electorate can fix it. Both the Senate and the House with one party having a large majority. Everyone that listens has heard all the theories about what needs to be done. I expect that well survive until then.
    Btw, I voted for "Accept it and continue to work towards the "President's Big Deal". But, Id have preferred 'Accept it and continue to work towards the next election.'

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    Re: If Republicans Offer a Shorter Term Deal

    Such is the self imposed irrelevancy of the conservative caucus, House Republicans can't pass a debt ceiling increase in any form acceptable to the Senate without House Democratic votes. This is a debate mostly among Democrats.
    Real environmentalists live in cities, and they visit what's left of the wilderness as gently and respectfully as possible. Donna Moulton, letter to the editor, Tucson Weekly, published on August 23, 2001

  8. #28
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    Re: If Republicans Offer a Shorter Term Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The President says he wants a "big deal" because he doesn't want to "kick the can down the road".

    Mind you, he spent most of the year wanting to do precisely that - calling for a "clean" debt ceiling bill. But be that as it may.


    It is also becoming clear that the two sides may have (at this point) mutually defeating points on which they are unwilling to budge. Most specifically, Republicans will not raise taxes and Democrats are refusing to not raise taxes. Both sides, however, agree that they "want to reduce the deficit" (though given that Democrats are calling for additional spending in this deal, I maintain my own opinion on how serious they are about this).


    The Secretary of the Treasury, the President, and most of the high-level Democratic Leadership are generally pretty sure that the heavens will split and the antichrist will come forth on August 3. That's a bit of an exaggeration; but not much. Republicans point out that we have enough money to pay for our debt, social security, medicare, the troops, and half of Medicaid; and so it's unlikely to be quite the disaster predicted.... but both agree it's going to be intensely painful; and probably harmful to an anemic and exceedingly weak recovery.



    Ergo: more than a few conservatives are proposing that the House go ahead and pass a debt - ceiling increase matched to spending cuts of their choosing. The amount can be large enough to buy us room to negotiate the Big Deal that the President now claims to want (tax reform, entitlement reform, and so on and so forth), but not be so huge as to be Republicans trying to force a one-sided approach to the debt ceiling between now and Nov 2012.

    Should Republicans take their advice, and pass (say) a three to five month extension of the debt ceiling tied to spending cuts to match; what should the Administration and Senate Democrats do? The ball will be in their court to either accept the rise, or go into an economic period that they claim would be disastrous for the nation. They would be then forced to make the argument that these upheavals were worth them shooting for political advantage - an argument not slated to go over well with the electorate.
    Short term deals should be rejected because if they do a short term deal the issue will get pushed aside and ignored until it becomes a hot button issue again and we are even in a bigger mess and it will be a lot more painful trying to fix it.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  9. #29
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    Re: If Republicans Offer a Shorter Term Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Short term deals should be rejected because if they do a short term deal the issue will get pushed aside and ignored until it becomes a hot button issue again and we are even in a bigger mess and it will be a lot more painful trying to fix it.
    the Debt Ceiling was never supposed to be The Solution; it was just another chance to make a downpayment towards that goal.

    The Solution is a Government in January 2013 with a Republican Majority in both Houses and one in the White House dedicated roughly to the Ryan Plan framework.

    The Debt Ceiling, like the Continuing Resolution, is just another chance to do some good.

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