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Family, FaceBook and spying.

Parents: If you had their ID’s and passwords, would you/do you logon to your kids’ FB

  • Parents: Yes, while they are minors.

    Votes: 19 73.1%

  • Parents: No, while they are minors.

    Votes: 1 3.8%

  • Parents: Yes, when they are adults.

    Votes: 2 7.7%

  • Parents: No, when they are adults.

    Votes: 9 34.6%

  • Parents: Yes, I creep their FB pages.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Parents: No, I don’t creep their FB pages.

    Votes: 8 30.8%

  • FaceBook? What's that?

    Votes: 1 3.8%
  • Total voters
    26
Dezaad said:
I don't have children. However, I do know that my parents would have never dreamt of accessing my private anything after I became an adult. We were taught, from the time we were teens, that we would be our own persons upon legal adulthood. They prepared us for it, both the rights and responsibilities. Because we were taught this, our parents would have faced our wrath had they invaded (which they wouldn't have, but just 'if') our privacy.

Given this upbringing, this invasion of privacy is inconceivable to me. There is no excuse for the behavior of the woman in the OP. Quite frankly, if I were good friends with a family in this situation, I would risk my friendship and inform the other adults whose privacy is being violated. To me it is equivalent, or at least nearly so, as anyone else invading privacy in such a manner. In all other cases, I would inform, so I would do so here. I feel it is that clear cut, and that strongly about it, though I do understand anyone who feels differently on that score.

The interesting point to be made about informing is this: If the young adults don't care, then no harm done and the friendship should survive. But if they do care, then all the more they should be informed.
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I bet you'd change your passwords, though.
 
I think my interpretation of "adult" and other folks' interpretation may be different. An 18 yr old is legally an adult under certain conditions. A 21 yr old is legally considered an adult under all conditions. However, if they live in my house off my income and are dependents on my tax return, then they live by my rules. I've lived a lot of years. I wish I had a nickle for every parent I've heard say, "But they were such good kids!" after hearing their "adult" child has been arrested for joyriding, is in the hospital for alcohol poisoning, was having stomach pumped after ingesting unknown pills at a "candy party", was raped at a frat party (1 in 4 college women report being sexually abused... and sexual abuse is only reported 50% of the time), has died from an illegal fraternity initiation, was arrested for DUI, was arrested after an auto accident involving DUI, was on a slab in the morge after an auto accident involving DUI.

When I was 21 yrs old, I had a job, a husband, two kids and a mortgage. I'd earned my own money and lived on my own since the age of 18. I was an adult. A 21 yr old still living with parents, never had a job, tossed onto a campus filled with horny peers and never-ending booze is likely to cut loose with this new-found freedom and feeling of adolescent invincibility.

Parents believe what their children tell them. They like to presume that their own children never lie, and if children do lie it's because of poor parenting. That's crap. Children lie. Good children lie to good parents. It's what children do. I get why we want to pretend that only the children of poor parents get in trouble and run wild. It's a parental protective mechanism to wall off our deepest fears. We pretend that nothing bad will happen to our children, only the children of poor parents. It's a fantasy, people. Bad things happen to good kids with good parents, because even good kids become euphoric and invincible when tempted by peers offering liquor, pills and a good party.

I've raised five children and stepchildren. I, too, believed my good kids told me the truth... until I caught them sneaking out at night to drink in the park across the street, which apparently they'd been doing for months. After all, I never did bedchecks. Heaven forbid I invade my teens' privacy. As we tightened our awareness, our eyes were opened. My new parental motto: Trust but verify.

BTW, all my kids now have kids of their own. Some even have grandkids. They are all good parents, and they have all learned the hard way: Good children lie. It's what they do to fit in with adolescent peers. Word to the wise, people. Word to the wise.
 
Kids lie because they don't want their parents to judge them or disapprove of their actions. In my opinion, and this may change, all I can do as a parent is teach them about safe sex and the dangers of drugs and alcohol. I can't being looking over their shoulders 24 hours a day to keep them out of trouble. If my kids get killed because they do something stupid, that's on them. Because I will have taught them honestly about sex and drugs. And I will be accepting if they decide to experiment. I did when I was a teen, and I hate hypocrisy and double standards. Therefore, I expect them to try drugs and have sex. I will prepare them for those things the best way I can. What they do with that information by the time they're 18 is up to them.
 
evanescence said:
Kids lie because they don't want their parents to judge them or disapprove of their actions. In my opinion, and this may change, all I can do as a parent is teach them about safe sex and the dangers of drugs and alcohol. I can't being looking over their shoulders 24 hours a day to keep them out of trouble. If my kids get killed because they do something stupid, that's on them. Because I will have taught them honestly about sex and drugs. And I will be accepting if they decide to experiment. I did when I was a teen, and I hate hypocrisy and double standards. Therefore, I expect them to try drugs and have sex. I will prepare them for those things the best way I can. What they do with that information by the time they're 18 is up to them.
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You need to get over that. I don't want my kid doing half the things I did in my teens and early 20's.
 
Has it occurred to you they lie because they know you're going to freak out and tighten the noose?

I never lied to my dad about anything even vaguely important. His general tactic was "advise and permit." There were rules, and I got punished for breaking them, but there weren't a huge number of them, and some of them could be waived for certain circumstances if I talked to him first. But as far as general life milestones go, "advise and permit" was the rule.

It was actually a pretty good one. I was as ready as I could have been for adulthood at 18. Because I had made a long series of small mistakes when I was younger, rather than being bottled up and exploding with a bunch of BIG mistakes when I was finally free. Sometimes my dad would even facilitate my mistakes. For example, we would sometimes have a glass of wine with dinner. One night he let me have as much as I asked for. I was maybe 16-ish - around the age when kids start sneaking out and partying. Needless to say, I drank way, way too much. I was hilariously ill. My dad stood in the doorway and said "Now you know."

I've never been that drunk since. :lol: I also learned something really important about myself, which is that I have a very high alcohol tolerance - it's genetic. So when I've finally had too much, I've had WAY too much. I need to stop drinking before I've had "too much." People die from NOT realizing that about themselves. That lesson may have saved me from winding up in the hospital at some point.

I tended to consult him about almost everything. I still do sometimes. I don't always take his advice, but the older I get, the more seriously I consider it. I haven't been subject to some of the massive, life-destroying mistakes my more sheltered and micro-managed friends have. I can't help but wonder if this is because I've never felt the need to hide anything.
 
Gina said:
I can't get past the fact they are adults. Yes, as you might be paying for their education, you demand results, so if the grades don't come through, you deal with that. I agreed with Goshin to the point that not all kids are ready to fly solo, but good kids who have not been in trouble have earned trust. If you start out having all their passwords and logons, then they won't be posting any of that anyway and you've forced them to sneak about. Yes, it's good no sexually or dumb drinking pics are not being posted there, but it doesn't mean it isn't happening. You just can't see it.

I respect your point of view about internet bullying, and this reply, but good, open communication with our kids, minor and adult, will go farther than spying on them, although I do support monitoring for minors.
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No, I am not forcing them to post material they are ashamed of allowing me to see somewhere else. They are choosing to post material they are ashamed of allowing me to see somewhere else.

This is where we differ. You ignore the fact that the kids are posting inappropriate, non-parent approved items, and still call them "good kids"; rather you blame the parents for "forcing" them to post elsewhere. You keep referring to these kids as adults, but refuse to assign them responsibility for their own choices and their own behavior. Where, exactly, is the responsibility of these kids to live up to parental expectation, or to accept the consequence if they choose not to? As I've said before, kids lie. By posting inappropriate materials out of parents' view, kids are basically lying to their parents about what they are doing on the internet.

By the way, a rather resent the word "spying" on them. As I said up front, my children would be well aware of my internet monitoring activities. Spying infers I am doing something underhanded, without their knowledge. That would not be the case.
 
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Gina said:
I can't get past the fact they are adults. Yes, as you might be paying for their education, you demand results, so if the grades don't come through, you deal with that. I agreed with Goshin to the point that not all kids are ready to fly solo, but good kids who have not been in trouble have earned trust. If you start out having all their passwords and logons, then they won't be posting any of that anyway and you've forced them to sneak about. Yes, it's good no sexually or dumb drinking pics are not being posted there, but it doesn't mean it isn't happening. You just can't see it.

I respect your point of view about internet bullying, and this reply, but good, open communication with our kids, minor and adult, will go farther than spying on them, although I do support monitoring for minors.
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Good grades are a given.

My money comes with other strings attached then a need to get good grades. I expect standards of character, also.

My children will free to take or leave my offer. If they want more autonomy, that's fine, they can have it, but autonomy necessarily means they aren't relying on me to pay their bills.
 
MistressNomad said:
Has it occurred to you they lie because they know you're going to freak out and tighten the noose?

I never lied to my dad about anything even vaguely important. His general tactic was "advise and permit." There were rules, and I got punished for breaking them, but there weren't a huge number of them, and some of them could be waived for certain circumstances if I talked to him first. But as far as general life milestones go, "advise and permit" was the rule.

It was actually a pretty good one. I was as ready as I could have been for adulthood at 18. Because I had made a long series of small mistakes when I was younger, rather than being bottled up and exploding with a bunch of BIG mistakes when I was finally free. Sometimes my dad would even facilitate my mistakes. For example, we would sometimes have a glass of wine with dinner. One night he let me have as much as I asked for. I was maybe 16-ish - around the age when kids start sneaking out and partying. Needless to say, I drank way, way too much. I was hilariously ill. My dad stood in the doorway and said "Now you know."

I've never been that drunk since. :lol: I also learned something really important about myself, which is that I have a very high alcohol tolerance - it's genetic. So when I've finally had too much, I've had WAY too much. I need to stop drinking before I've had "too much." People die from NOT realizing that about themselves. That lesson may have saved me from winding up in the hospital at some point.

I tended to consult him about almost everything. I still do sometimes. I don't always take his advice, but the older I get, the more seriously I consider it. I haven't been subject to some of the massive, life-destroying mistakes my more sheltered and micro-managed friends have. I can't help but wonder if this is because I've never felt the need to hide anything.
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It sounds like you had good communication with your parents and respect them immensely. Seriously, that' excellent. However, you are looking at a very big picture filled with hundreds of thousands of completely unique individuals from the perspective of a single child familiar with a single style of parenting. You identify with the young adults.

I've raised many children. Each one was completely different, requiring a different parental style. I identify with parents. After you have raised a child to adulthood, you will too. :)
 
DiAnna said:
It sounds like you had good communication with your parents and respect them immensely. Seriously, that' excellent. However, you are looking at a very big picture filled with hundreds of thousands of completely unique individuals from the perspective of a single child familiar with a single style of parenting. You identify with the young adults.

I've raised many children. Each one was completely different, requiring a different parental style. I identify with parents. After you have raised a child to adulthood, you will too. :)
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Heh, well, that's not going to happen for me - I'm quite adamantly childfree.

I understand that people are different - and thus kids are different. But I guess what I'm suggesting is that sometimes it seems like the line for bad behavior is drawn pretty arbitrarily, and directly on top of milestones that pretty much everyone goes over at some point. I don't think that trying to stop kids from going over them is the best approach. It breeds resent, and I see the results of that in a lot of my friends who are my age now.

I admit part of what probably contributed to my dad's style is that I was a REALLY difficult kid to raise. I wasn't a deliquent or anything, just eccentric and stubborn and, shall we say, a forceful personality. The more he knew about my life, the better. Him not knowing something was really bad news with a kid like me. I was smart enough to hide things very well if I wanted to, and it was much easier if I simply felt inclined not to hide things. He was willing to sacrifice a certain amount of control in order to make sure that he at least knew what was going on.

I guess all I'm advocating is a little more tolerance for what growing up entails. And that reality doesn't always conform to how we think things ought to be. And also, that kids being successful and intelligent adults doesn't hinge on them never messing up - in fact it's probably the opposite.

I do identify with young adults, of course. And I'm still close enough to my years as a minor to remember them clearly, and yet old enough, with some dedicated thought on the matter, to have a decent big picture of how my dad went about creating the environment he did and why he did it. And also to see what has become of some of my friends who were heavily repressed when they were younger.
 
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Gina said:
I was at dinner a couple weeks ago with a circle of very longtime friends. We hadn't made time for a get-together for a couple of years, so it was a lot of catching up.

Several times, FaceBook came up with one of the ladies. Her daughters are away in college, the younger girl just last fall. She hates not knowing what is up with them and said that she regularly checks their FB pages. Ok, that's not something I do but beyond that, one of the others kept telling her that she probably couldn't see everything, surely they would have mom blocked. To which she consistently replied, "Oh, yes I can." Finally after much skepticism and telling her she really wouldn't want to know everything, she confessed, "I have their ID and passwords."

Shock passed through the group. She explained, when they originally signed up as minors, she helped them and kept their information. They just never changed their passwords.

We were horrified, but swore not to interfere, to which I agree. This is her's to deal with.

So it's been on my mind. Is it out of line for a parent of adult children?

These are my questions: Parents, do you/would you logon to your kids' FB pages to spy? While they are minors? When they are adults? Do you creep (my daughter's word) their pages? Are you their "friends" on FB?

I have many issues with FB, but this one was new to me, so I thought would ask and include the questions about kids and parents "friending".

Poll to come.
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When my kids become adults I won't sneak around finding out what they are doing. They're adults and as such should be accorded the respect of an adult.

As minors however I have the right and the obligation to go through anything of thiers that I think needs to be gone through in order to secure thier safety. While they may have the right to privacy from anyone that is not family they certainly do not have that right from me or my wife.
 
My kid wouldnt have ANY access to the internet unless she/he was in front of me. Not till she was 18.
 
MistressNomad said:
Has it occurred to you they lie because they know you're going to freak out and tighten the noose?

I never lied to my dad about anything even vaguely important. His general tactic was "advise and permit." There were rules, and I got punished for breaking them, but there weren't a huge number of them, and some of them could be waived for certain circumstances if I talked to him first. But as far as general life milestones go, "advise and permit" was the rule.

It was actually a pretty good one. I was as ready as I could have been for adulthood at 18. Because I had made a long series of small mistakes when I was younger, rather than being bottled up and exploding with a bunch of BIG mistakes when I was finally free. Sometimes my dad would even facilitate my mistakes. For example, we would sometimes have a glass of wine with dinner. One night he let me have as much as I asked for. I was maybe 16-ish - around the age when kids start sneaking out and partying. Needless to say, I drank way, way too much. I was hilariously ill. My dad stood in the doorway and said "Now you know."

I've never been that drunk since. :lol: I also learned something really important about myself, which is that I have a very high alcohol tolerance - it's genetic. So when I've finally had too much, I've had WAY too much. I need to stop drinking before I've had "too much." People die from NOT realizing that about themselves. That lesson may have saved me from winding up in the hospital at some point.

I tended to consult him about almost everything. I still do sometimes. I don't always take his advice, but the older I get, the more seriously I consider it. I haven't been subject to some of the massive, life-destroying mistakes my more sheltered and micro-managed friends have. I can't help but wonder if this is because I've never felt the need to hide anything.
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Heh. Your Dad sounds like exactly the kind of parent I am and you sound just like my kid does. It kinda makes me feel better that you still seek his advice even today. I often think that I'm preparing this kid so well for adulthood that there will come a day when she won't need to ask me about anything at all. LOL
 
Arcana XV said:
Heh. Your Dad sounds like exactly the kind of parent I am and you sound just like my kid does. It kinda makes me feel better that you still seek his advice even today. I often think that I'm preparing this kid so well for adulthood that there will come a day when she won't need to ask me about anything at all. LOL
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I still can't drink red wine. It's been ruined forever for me. :lol:

I find that what's actually happening is that my dad and I are getting to equal terms a lot faster than most kids and parents do. We're moving towards the "friends" sort of relationship, while most of my peers still think of their parents as an authority figure to be avoided and lied to.

If I sound like your kid... then I apologize on his behalf. As hunky dory as the above sounds, I am still, and will always be, a giant pain in the ass. :D
 
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MistressNomad said:
I still can't drink red wine. It's been ruined forever for me. :lol:
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Yeah, mine learned her lesson in a similar way too. :lol:

I find that what's actually happening is that my dad and I are getting to equal terms a lot faster than most kids and parents do. We're moving towards the "friends" sort of relationship, while most of my peers still think of their parents as an authority figure to be avoided and lied to.
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That's what I feel is happening with my daughter as well. More and more we're starting to relate to each other as friends even though she's only 16 years old. She's a lot more mature and grounded than any of her friends and the times where she still needs me to be "mommy" are getting few and far between.

If I sound like your kid... then I apologize on his behalf. As hunky dory as the above sounds, I am still, and will always be, a giant pain in the ass. :D
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LOL, nah she's a good kid. She's giving her father a lot more trouble and I think that's due to his different parenting style.
 
Gina said:
I won't inform her girls because this doesn't cross the line I set for intervention into the affairs of my friends. If it was abusive or neglectful, yes, I would risk destroying a friendship. But it isn't.

The subject came up several times and it was clear, we didn't agree with her. It was unmistakeable without being directly addressed. It was a silent rebuke by the group.
.
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Well I do understand, and respect your decision. But I do disagree and think it is at the very least mildly abusive. I would want to be told.
 
DiAnna said:
Minor children living in my house? I'd make certain I had all of their passwords and would regularly monitor their pages. Children in college? Yes, if they're still living at home OR I'm footing their educational/living expenses. College is the time of most danger, when kids are still inexperienced but relatively unchaperoned and reveling in their freedom. However, my children and college kids would be aware that I am monitoring them. I'm not into "gotcha" parenting.
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If I was an adult child of yours I would simply change my password, no matter what the situation. If that meant some kind of rift with you along with other consequences, I would be ok with that.
 
Arcana XV said:
That's what I feel is happening with my daughter as well. More and more we're starting to relate to each other as friends even though she's only 16 years old. She's a lot more mature and grounded than any of her friends and the times where she still needs me to be "mommy" are getting few and far between.
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Exactly. All that changes is WHAT you talk about, and HOW you talk. I wouldn't worry too much that she'll just forget about you, as it were. I don't think there's ever been a point in my post-18 life when I didn't talk to my dad several times a week, even when I was on the opposite side of the planet (which accounts for the majority of my life since I left high school). It's probably 80% of what I use Skype for. We mostly talk about... politics, actually. :lol:
 
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DiAnna said:
I think my interpretation of "adult" and other folks' interpretation may be different. An 18 yr old is legally an adult under certain conditions. A 21 yr old is legally considered an adult under all conditions. However, if they live in my house off my income and are dependents on my tax return, then they live by my rules. I've lived a lot of years. I wish I had a nickle for every parent I've heard say, "But they were such good kids!" after hearing their "adult" child has been arrested for joyriding, is in the hospital for alcohol poisoning, was having stomach pumped after ingesting unknown pills at a "candy party", was raped at a frat party (1 in 4 college women report being sexually abused... and sexual abuse is only reported 50% of the time), has died from an illegal fraternity initiation, was arrested for DUI, was arrested after an auto accident involving DUI, was on a slab in the morge after an auto accident involving DUI.

When I was 21 yrs old, I had a job, a husband, two kids and a mortgage. I'd earned my own money and lived on my own since the age of 18. I was an adult. A 21 yr old still living with parents, never had a job, tossed onto a campus filled with horny peers and never-ending booze is likely to cut loose with this new-found freedom and feeling of adolescent invincibility.

Parents believe what their children tell them. They like to presume that their own children never lie, and if children do lie it's because of poor parenting. That's crap. Children lie. Good children lie to good parents. It's what children do. I get why we want to pretend that only the children of poor parents get in trouble and run wild. It's a parental protective mechanism to wall off our deepest fears. We pretend that nothing bad will happen to our children, only the children of poor parents. It's a fantasy, people. Bad things happen to good kids with good parents, because even good kids become euphoric and invincible when tempted by peers offering liquor, pills and a good party.

I've raised five children and stepchildren. I, too, believed my good kids told me the truth... until I caught them sneaking out at night to drink in the park across the street, which apparently they'd been doing for months. After all, I never did bedchecks. Heaven forbid I invade my teens' privacy. As we tightened our awareness, our eyes were opened. My new parental motto: Trust but verify.

BTW, all my kids now have kids of their own. Some even have grandkids. They are all good parents, and they have all learned the hard way: Good children lie. It's what they do to fit in with adolescent peers. Word to the wise, people. Word to the wise.
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Doing stupid things that you want to lie about is a natural part of growing up - and being a young adult. The difference between being a teen and an adult, however, is that you fully own the stupid as an adult. At least it is supposed to be. Thereby, young adults learn very quickly how right their parents are.

At 17, I did think my parents were stupid. At 21 I again thought they were among the smartest people on the planet. I'm more nuanced, now, of course.
 
I would not let my child on facebook, until I felt they were mature enough to understand that it's crap.
 
DiAnna said:
No, I am not forcing them to post material they are ashamed of allowing me to see somewhere else. They are choosing to post material they are ashamed of allowing me to see somewhere else.

This is where we differ. You ignore the fact that the kids are posting inappropriate, non-parent approved items, and still call them "good kids"; rather you blame the parents for "forcing" them to post elsewhere. You keep referring to these kids as adults, but refuse to assign them responsibility for their own choices and their own behavior. Where, exactly, is the responsibility of these kids to live up to parental expectation, or to accept the consequence if they choose not to? As I've said before, kids lie. By posting inappropriate materials out of parents' view, kids are basically lying to their parents about what they are doing on the internet.

By the way, a rather resent the word "spying" on them. As I said up front, my children would be well aware of my internet monitoring activities. Spying infers I am doing something underhanded, without their knowledge. That would not be the case.
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DiAnna, in none of my postings do I ever mean to offend anyone. I'm only defending my position, not attacking anyone or their parenting style. I used the word spying in the title of the thread and have tried to be consistent in using it as that is the topic I wished to address.

As to "forcing" them. If they know you have access, in order not to be caught doing something you disapprove of, they will be forced to either not ever post racy content or, to hide it somewhere else. If they are going to do it, they will and we don't have control over that. At some point we have to trust we've raised them well enough and let them go. We can't be there, nor should we, to protect them every minute, especially once they are adults. Yes, some kids will need greater oversight, but in general, if we've cnsistently taught them the downside to this activity, we need to trust it took. If it didn't, then they'll be forced then to deal with the outcome.

As you said in earlier posts, "kids lie", even good kids to good parents.
 
Kal'Stang said:
When my kids become adults I won't sneak around finding out what they are doing. They're adults and as such should be accorded the respect of an adult.

As minors however I have the right and the obligation to go through anything of thiers that I think needs to be gone through in order to secure thier safety. While they may have the right to privacy from anyone that is not family they certainly do not have that right from me or my wife.
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*NOTE: I messed up my response to my own poll. I voted "No, not when they are minors". It should have been yes. I do agree with monitoring minors and more specifically with your reply Kal. All of it. When they are adults, we need to let them go.
 
The Giant Noodle said:
My kid wouldnt have ANY access to the internet unless she/he was in front of me. Not till she was 18.
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I disagree in that we need to teach them how to cope. In their teen years, they should be given some autonomy, but we certainly should verify and monitor. Otherwise they don't learn how to do it on their own.

Dezaad said:
Well I do understand, and respect your decision. But I do disagree and think it is at the very least mildly abusive. I would want to be told.
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We agree to disagree. :)
 
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