View Poll Results: Should Republicans agree to Tax Increases.....and commit political suicide?

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  • Yes

    18 42.86%
  • No

    24 57.14%
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Thread: Should Republicans agree to Tax Increases.....and commit political suicide?

  1. #111
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    Re: Should Republicans agree to Tax Increases.....and commit political suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Really!?!?!?!? That savings would mean something to me.
    they would mean nothing because that's not the plan. they just hiked the baseline to something ridiculous, "cut" from there back to what was already the plan, and then claimed to have "cut the deficit". no actual spending was cut - just smoke and mirrors.

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    Re: Should Republicans agree to Tax Increases.....and commit political suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    they would mean nothing because that's not the plan. they just hiked the baseline to something ridiculous, "cut" from there back to what was already the plan, and then claimed to have "cut the deficit". no actual spending was cut - just smoke and mirrors.
    Was a long term war in Iraq "in the plan"? Was a never ending war on terror "in the plan"?
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    Re: Should Republicans agree to Tax Increases.....and commit political suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Was a long term war in Iraq "in the plan"? Was a never ending war on terror "in the plan"?
    "The plan" was to go after the guy who tried to kill his daddy, I don't think Bush had a long-term plan, he just used an excuse that was dropped in his lap.
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  4. #114
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    Re: Should Republicans agree to Tax Increases.....and commit political suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Was a long term war in Iraq "in the plan"? Was a never ending war on terror "in the plan"?
    maintaining surge levels of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan indefinitely was never the plan. claiming to have 'cut spending" by not doing so, therefore, is meaningless.


    Republicans might as well claim to have already raised tax rates, as they aren't lowering them to the Simpson-Bowles suggested rates, and demand that those rate increases count for them.

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    Re: Should Republicans agree to Tax Increases.....and commit political suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    That poll is outdated now. That was before the American people got reacquainted with the GOP shell game where they promise jobs and a better economy and then only work for further tax cuts for the wealthiest and a radical religious agenda. All the polls now are showing a great majority of Americans understand that both spending and revenues have to be addressed to reduce the deficit..
    Yeah.....tell me how outdated it was when Republicans retake the Senate and the Presidency in 2012........
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  6. #116
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    Re: Should Republicans agree to Tax Increases.....and commit political suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha View Post
    Yeah.....tell me how outdated it was when Republicans retake the Senate and the Presidency in 2012........
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    Re: Should Republicans agree to Tax Increases.....and commit political suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    That poll is outdated now. That was before the American people got reacquainted with the GOP shell game where they promise jobs and a better economy and then only work for further tax cuts for the wealthiest and a radical religious agenda. All the polls now are showing a great majority of Americans understand that both spending and revenues have to be addressed to reduce the deficit..
    Well according to the most recent poll........only 34% of Americans support Tax Increases........the most recent poll/Gawd has spoken..........

    55% Oppose Tax Hike In Debt Ceiling Deal - Rasmussen Reportsô

    55% Oppose Tax Hike In Debt Ceiling Deal

    Just 34% think a tax hike should be included in any legislation to raise the debt ceiling. A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 55% disagree and say it should not. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

    There is a huge partisan divide on the question. Fifty-eight percent (58%) of Democrats want a tax hike in the deal while 82% of Republicans do not. Among those not affiliated with either major political party, 35% favor a tax hike and 51% are opposed.

  8. #118
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    Re: Should Republicans agree to Tax Increases.....and commit political suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    interesting.


    so in this mythical reality there is no baby boomer generation? and tax rates directly effect tax revenue?


    In reality, unfortunately, Two Trillion will not even cover future Social Security and Medicare, much less any other government function. Furthermore, hiking the Bush Tax Rates won't get you more revenue. You could cut the entire DOD and it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference, except that the loss of world wide security would likely lead to an international economic collapse to make 2008 look like a dress rehearsal.
    If you cut it down to 2 trillion (adjust for inflation to what it would need to be based off of the 2002 budget set by Bush Jr.) then yeah you could. Here, according to the CBO are the #1 causes of our deficit:

    Revenue declines due to two recessions, separate from the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003: 28%
    Defense spending increases: 15%
    Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003: 13%
    Increases in net interest: 11%
    Other non-defense spending: 10%
    Other tax cuts: 8%
    Obama Stimulus: 6%
    Medicare Part D: 2%
    Other reasons: 7%

    Roughly 33% of that could be taken out, not counting any of the spending cuts Obama has proposed bringing the overall budget to between 2-2.5 trillion.
    "Weíre going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and thatís crazy." -Reagan

  9. #119
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    Re: Should Republicans agree to Tax Increases.....and commit political suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    If you cut it down to 2 trillion (adjust for inflation to what it would need to be based off of the 2002 budget set by Bush Jr.) then yeah you could. Here, according to the CBO are the #1 causes of our deficit:

    Revenue declines due to two recessions, separate from the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003: 28%
    Defense spending increases: 15%
    Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003: 13%
    Increases in net interest: 11%
    Other non-defense spending: 10%
    Other tax cuts: 8%
    Obama Stimulus: 6%
    Medicare Part D: 2%
    Other reasons: 7%

    Roughly 33% of that could be taken out, not counting any of the spending cuts Obama has proposed bringing the overall budget to between 2-2.5 trillion.
    no, you couldn't; for the simple reason that these programs are not static. both Social Security and Medicare as currently scheduled will rise 74% in the next decade - and we haven't begun to implement Obamas new entitlement program (remember that) which doesn't fully start until 2014.

    you simply can't cut the budget to 2 Trillion unless you are willing to make deep cuts in the entitlements.

    furthermore, the CBO is forced to utilize static scoring in its' treatment of taxes. in reality, rates matter very little - it's growth that is important.

  10. #120
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    Re: Should Republicans agree to Tax Increases.....and commit political suicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    that is crap. they offered pretend cuts for actual tax increases. "not surging in Afghanistan for 10 years straight" is not "cutting spending"
    Here you go since you are unfamiliar with the President's proposal:

    * Non-security discretionary spending: The President is proposing to build on the savings from the FY 2011 budget agreement, while investing in key drivers of economic growth like energy innovation, education, and infrastructure. This would entail cutting non-security discretionary spending to levels consistent with the Fiscal Commission, saving $770 billion by 2023.


    * Security spending: The Presidentís framework will go beyond the Fiscal Year 2012 Budget to achieve deeper reductions in security spending. It sets a goal of holding the growth in base security spending below inflation, while ensuring our capacity to meet our national security responsibilities, which would save $400 billion by 2023.

    * Health care: The Presidentís framework builds on the Affordable Care Act by including new reforms aimed at further reducing the growth of health care spending Ė a major driver of long-term deficits. The President opposes any plan that would simply shift costs to seniors and the vulnerable by undermining Medicare and Medicaid. Building on the foundation of the historic deficit reduction achieved through the Affordable Care Act, the framework would save an additional $340 billion by 2021, $480 billion by 2023, and at least an additional $1 trillion in the subsequent decade. These savings complement the new patient safety initiative that could lower Medicare costs by another $50 billion over the next decade by providing better care. The Presidentís framework includes initiatives that will:

    * Bend the long-term cost curve by setting a more ambitious target of holding Medicare cost growth per beneficiary to GDP per capita plus 0.5 percent beginning in 2018, through strengthening the Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB).

    * Make Medicaid more flexible, efficient and accountable without resorting to block granting the program, ending our partnership with States or reducing health care coverage for seniors in nursing homes, the most economically vulnerable and people with disabilities. Combined Medicaid savings of at least $100 billion over 10 years.

    * Reduce Medicareís excessive spending on prescription drugs and lower drug premiums for beneficiaries without shifting costs to seniors or privatizing Medicare. Combined Medicare savings of at least $200 billion over 10 years.

    * Other mandatory spending: Outside of health care, comprehensive deficit reduction must include savings in other mandatory programs, including agricultural subsidies, the federal pension insurance system, and anti-fraud measures, while protecting and strengthening programs that serve low-income families and other vulnerable Americans. The Presidentís framework includes a target of $360 billion in savings from other mandatory programs by 2023.

    * Tax reform: the President is calling for individual tax reform that closes loopholes and produces a system which is simpler, fairer and not rigged in favor of those who can afford lawyers and accountants to game it. The President supports the Fiscal Commissionís goal of reducing tax expenditures enough to both lower rates and lower the deficit.

    * Social Security: The President does not believe that Social Security is in crisis nor is a driver of our near-term deficit problems. But, in the context of an aging population and a Social Security wage base that is declining as a share of overall earnings, Social Security faces long-term challenges that are better addressed sooner than later to ensure that the program remains for future generations the rock-solid benefit for older Americans that it has been for past generations. That is why the President supports bipartisan efforts to strengthen Social Security for the long haul. These efforts should be guided by several principles, including strengthening the program and not privatizing it, improving retirement security for the vulnerable while protecting people with disabilities and current beneficiaries, and not slashing benefits for future generations."

    FACT SHEET: The President's Framework for Shared Prosperity and Shared Fiscal Responsibility | The White House
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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