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All Things Being Equal

People who produce life contribute more to society than those who don't

  • True

    Votes: 13 24.1%

  • False

    Votes: 29 53.7%

  • Not sure

    Votes: 3 5.6%

  • Other

    Votes: 9 16.7%
  • Total voters
    54
False. More people does not automatically equal more value. Depends on how you raise them, depends on what you do instead if you don't have kids, and depends on what you value.
 
JohnWOlin said:
That is great and fantastic Boop, but are you saying having children is not a bullet point in your life? What are her "bullet points"?
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Her bullet points are too numerous to mention. They're also not mine to mention.

My daughter is not a bullet point. She is the love of my life. Having her does not make me any better a person than my best friend.
 
Without procreation there is no world, no life...
 
lpast said:
Without procreation there is no world, no life...
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There is plenty of procreation, though. Not every person on the planet needs to parent.
 
MistressNomad said:
False. More people does not automatically equal more value. Depends on how you raise them, depends on what you do instead if you don't have kids, and depends on what you value.
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Your PM box overfloweth.
 
Paschendale said:
All other things are never equal.

In addition, since we by no means are in need of population expansion, we would truly be better served by many people (especially those with weaker genetics) choosing* not to have children. Remember Idiocracy? That was the result of people having lots of kids and not doing so much else. Reproduction is not inherently valuable in a society with a stable population.

*Choosing, meaning I am not advocating eugenics.
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I agree with this. It really depends on who is having the kids. A crack head with four kids doesn't add any value to society that I can think of since it is very likely that her kids will also have drug problems; although I have seen exceptions to that. The problem with the OP is as you said, all things are not equal.
 
False of course

because the life produced may be the non-contributing kind
and
the person not producing life may be making other lives the contributing kind ie teacher or foster parent etc.
 
Absolutely false. The entire premise that directly ties procreation with one's ability to contribute to society with more value than someone who achieves the same amount of "success" without procreation is a logically flawed. All things can never be "equal", because no two individuals are the same. It's ludicrous to believe that people who are crappy parents raising children of dubious character are of more value to society than people who are childless simply by virtue of raising the earth's population. I honestly can't wrap my mind around this school of thought.
 
"People who produce life contribute more to society than those who don't"

This is complete BS. Please tell me how you contribute more to society by having children than by others who choose not to raise kids? It's complete BS because it truly depends on what those children do and if what they do contributes to society. Just because your children exist does not mean that you have contributed to society.


Fail
 
Thunder said:
what if the children you produce become mass-murderers?
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what if they cure cancer or solve world hunger?


outliers do not a solid statistical argument make. the question here is pretty obviously centered around the mean.
 
Mr. Invisible said:
"People who produce life contribute more to society than those who don't"

This is complete BS. Please tell me how you contribute more to society by having children than by others who choose not to raise kids? It's complete BS because it truly depends on what those children do and if what they do contributes to society. Just because your children exist does not mean that you have contributed to society.


Fail
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awesome! so you will not be accepting the retirement entitlements that my childrens' FICA tax will be paying for, then? :)



children are simply younger workers, voters, citizens, and taxpayers. to say that they have no intrinsic worth to society is to say that workers, voters, citizens, and taxpayers have no intrinsic worth to society.
 
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cpwill said:
awesome! so you will not be accepting the retirement entitlements that my childrens' FICA tax will be paying for, then? :)



children are simply younger workers, voters, citizens, and taxpayers. to say that they have no intrinsic worth to society is to say that workers, voters, citizens, and taxpayers have no intrinsic worth to society.
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You assume all will go well with your child, forever and always. Such things cannot be assumed.
 
cpwill said:
awesome! so you will not be accepting the retirement entitlements that my childrens' FICA tax will be paying for, then? :)

children are simply younger workers, voters, citizens, and taxpayers. to say that they have no intrinsic worth to society is to say that workers, voters, citizens, and taxpayers have no intrinsic worth to society.
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They don't have intrinsic value because they could easily spend their entire lives taking away from society.
 
tessaesque said:
This is kind of "chicken or the egg" argument. You can't benefit society unless somebody births you. Mother Theresa's parents could have decided against children and the good never would have been done by her.
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On the other side of the coin, John Wayne Gacy's parents could have chosen to refrain from having children, which would have benefited society.
 
Tucker Case said:
On the other side of the coin, John Wayne Gacy's parents could have chosen to refrain from having children, which would have benefited society.
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I fully admit that procreation begets evil, but you can't have good without it, either. All the good, childless people wouldn't exist if two people didn't humpty-hump.
 
BDBoop said:
"all other things being equal, those who have produced and raised children have given more value to society than those who have not."
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are these children the breeders can pay for and raise properly? or are their spawn going to be wards of the state and used to justify increased taxes on others?
 
tessaesque said:
I fully admit that procreation begets evil, but you can't have good without it, either. All the good, childless people wouldn't exist if two people didn't humpty-hump.
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True, but the main point I was making is that there are no guarantees that the kid is going to be a benefit to society, even if the parents are spectacular, the kid could have a screw loose or have a horrible encounter with a stranger or a priest or something that sends them off the deep end.

We cannot assume that "People who produce life contribute more to society than those who don't" until we know the quality of the life that is produced by them.
 
Tucker Case said:
True, but the main point I was making is that there are no guarantees that the kid is going to be a benefit to society, even if the parents are spectacular, the kid could have a screw loose or have a horrible encounter with a stranger or a priest or something that sends them off the deep end.

We cannot assume that "People who produce life contribute more to society than those who don't" until we know the quality of the life that is produced by them.
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Again, I reference the "chicken v egg" argument.
 
BDBoop said:
"all other things being equal, those who have produced and raised children have given more value to society than those who have not."
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Is your opinion based on global populations or just this country? I wouldn't even know where to start to find reliable stats that might offer concise data related to your comment. Have you gathered any?

With the heat on in Washington about the Debt Ceiling, Spending, and Taxing...I'd say there are a whole bunch of Republicans who might disagree with you because they see about 75 percent of the nation's population as parasites on the public system.
 
Removable Mind said:
Is your opinion based on global populations or just this country? I wouldn't even know where to start to find reliable stats that might offer concise data related to your comment. Have you gathered any?

With the heat on in Washington about the Debt Ceiling, Spending, and Taxing...I'd say there are a whole bunch of Republicans who might disagree with you because they see about 75 percent of the nation's population as parasites on the public system.
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That's true. The person who said the original quote is CPWill.
 
BDBoop said:
You assume all will go well with your child, forever and always. Such things cannot be assumed.
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not at all, I am assuming a mean experience for mean children; that people's lives are roughly lived on a bell curve, with a small number of super performers, a small number of severely problematic performers, and a vast majority in the middle.
 
theplaydrive said:
They don't have intrinsic value because they could easily spend their entire lives taking away from society.
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that is true, but the vast majority of people do that and hence the statement stands. you are attempting to judge by the outliers, and the outliers in only one direction.
 
BDBoop said:
I have many, and when I say many I mean MANY friends who are childfree. My best friend being my prime example. She is an AMAZING woman, rendered no less amazing by the fact that she never gave birth.
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i'm sure she's wonderful. explain to me again how that alters the math?
 
MistressNomad said:
False. More people does not automatically equal more value.
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this is incorrect, especially in a society where the young provide for the care of the old, such as ours.
 
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