View Poll Results: People who produce life contribute more to society than those who don't

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  • True

    14 20.59%
  • False

    42 61.76%
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    3 4.41%
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    9 13.24%
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Thread: All Things Being Equal

  1. #61
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    Re: All Things Being Equal

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    I have yet to see him present any "math" on the subject, apart from some completely randomly derived numbers about the theoretical income of a non-existent woman with vs. without kids combined with the possible income of her children.

    Those numbers, nearest I can tell, not only have no basis in any sort of fact or research, but surmises that the only worth of a person is income. Well, I guess teachers aren't very useful then, since they make sweet ****-all these days...
    Is it just me? Or is this based on keeping "our race" intact?

  2. #62
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    Re: All Things Being Equal

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    Is it just me? Or is this based on keeping "our race" intact?
    Pretty sure it's not just you. He was not-so-subtly talking about how "the immigrants" would out-breed us and it would be the end of our civilized society.

  3. #63
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    Re: All Things Being Equal

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    a society needs a birthrate of 2.1 to replace itself before it's population starts to shrink and it is incapable of taking care of itself. no society has ever survived having a birthrate dip below 1.8.
    Birthrate or growth rate?

    This is an important distinction, that many people seem to overlook (possibly due to the fact that it automatically defeats their argument to word it correctly, possibly due to flawed assumptions on their part), because birth is not the only means of increasing growth rate.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 07-13-11 at 08:43 AM.

  4. #64
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    Re: All Things Being Equal

    It takes two to produce life.. So the one that actually produces it is no more important than the one that is needed to get the ball rolling.. Our species would simply die out if their no men or women.. Both are required for our species to live on..

    Having said that.. The issue of having children and contributing to society are two seperate issues.. I think teachers contribute more to society than perhaps any other profession.. Our planet is over populated as it is, so couples not having a child is not a big issue.. In fact it is probably the smart move at least for our species as a whole..

    So.. In the end.. While having kids is needed for our species to live on.. It has little impact on todays society..

  5. #65
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    Re: All Things Being Equal

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    There's no math. Your opinion is your own,
    there is indeed math involved. as we age and our birthrates drop, our ability to support our elderly diminishes, and it is currently diminishing rapidly. For example, in 1940, we had 42 workers for each retiree. Now, we have 3.3. Soon that will shrink even further. Medicare will go bankrupt in around 10 years. This stuff isn't just "my opinion", it's the "opinion" of the Social Security Trustees, the Medicare and Medicaid Actuaries, the OMB, and the CBO. Politicians who have pointed this "opinion" out range the political spectrum from Ron Paul to Paul Ryan to Barack Obama.

    by a rate of about 3-1, your opinion is in the minority.
    well given that a Majority of Americans think that you can balance the budget without reducing Medicare and Social Security expenditures (a position that not even the President pretends to hold), that's not terribly surprising.
    Last edited by cpwill; 07-13-11 at 11:10 AM.

  6. #66
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    Re: All Things Being Equal

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Birthrate or growth rate?

    This is an important distinction, that many people seem to overlook (possibly due to the fact that it automatically defeats their argument to word it correctly, possibly due to flawed assumptions on their part), because birth is not the only means of increasing growth rate.
    that's an excellent point. Immigration is currently keeping America afloat, population wise. the question becomes one of integration.

  7. #67
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    Re: All Things Being Equal

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    that's an excellent point. Immigration is currently keeping America afloat, population wise. the question becomes one of integration.
    Immigration has always kept the US afloat. We'd never have grown to the size that we have without immigration and if we hadn't grown to this size, the world would be a very different place, possibly one without a United States of America in it. And the integration fears that people have today are no different than the integration fears exhibited in Boston circa 1849. I have absolutely no worries about immigrant integration at all. The country adapts, as do the immigrants. They always have and they always will. That's an aside, though.

    The main point is that a society is not dependent on birth rate. It is dependent on steady population growth.

    Therefore, the actual act of procreation is not a necessity at all.

    Thus, if we apply the same logic consistently, the statment "all other things being equal, illegal immigrants give more value to society than natural born citizens do" is just as true as "all other things being equal, those who have produced and raised children have given more value to society than those who have not".


    If you agree with both statements, then your logic is consistent.

    If not, there is clearly a flaw in the logic somewhere since logically speaking, one statement cannot be true while the other is false, since they depend on the same premises.

  8. #68
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    Re: All Things Being Equal

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    I voted true because mostly it is true. Saying that most people don't become productive members of society and many more actually are very successful is dishonest. You of course do have a small percentage that is going to be a dud but if you quit shooting off fireworks because one of them doesn't shoot off, or you see someone elses fireworks didn't fire off how are you going to really take chances at anything else in life?
    Yea because simply popping out a baby makes youre contributions to society greater than someone who hasn't. At the end of the day, all of our societies problem are caused by......lets see here.....whats the word......people.
    "It is a sad day in society when people adjust the facts to fit their beliefs, rather than adjust their beliefs to fit the facts."
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  9. #69
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    Re: All Things Being Equal

    The growth rate does depend on procreation of some kind. Whether or not it is immigrants who are procreating more is irrelevant. This isn't a racial issue. Jesus
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  10. #70
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    Re: All Things Being Equal

    Quote Originally Posted by DontDoIt View Post
    Yea because simply popping out a baby makes youre contributions to society greater than someone who hasn't. At the end of the day, all of our societies problem are caused by......lets see here.....whats the word......people.
    Well as cpwill said when you consider SSI it does help out. At the very least, anyone with a child contributes someone they will need to buy things for therefore injecting more into the economy. I honestly thing the two proponents of not having children are full of it, Boop has already stated she has had kids so she has at the very least done her part, and Mistress well..I don't know how Mistress contributes to society in any way???
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

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