View Poll Results: Who is to blame for the high Unemployment rate?

Voters
19. You may not vote on this poll
  • Bush and the Republicans

    9 47.37%
  • Obama and the Democrats

    7 36.84%
  • Europe

    0 0%
  • High Gas Prices

    2 10.53%
  • The Earthquake in Japan

    1 5.26%
Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 64

Thread: Who is to blame for the high Unemployment rATE?

  1. #51
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: Who is to blame for the high Unemployment rATE?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    The whole point of regulation in the first place is to control the bad behavior that's likely to occur. If we'd maintained regulation, then the banking industry would not have been able to get involved in mortgages, would not have been stuck with tons of bad paper and bailouts would never have been necessary. Now keep in mind, I entirely disagree with the bailouts, I think every one of those companies should have been allowed to fail based on their own stupidity, but once it stops being American Home Mortgages and starts being Bank of America that's facing failure, it becomes a different ball game. There are certainly banks that refused to get involved in the sub-prime mortgage game, but many, many just bought paper thinking it would all magically be good and made some really horrible decisions. They should have been allowed to die, but if that happened, there goes American consumer confidence, there would have been riots in the streets. It was really a no-win situation, there were no good solutions, except not to deregulate in the first place.
    Why should there be confidence? Even if they didn't get bailed out, why should we trust these companies with our money?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  2. #52
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    29,793

    Re: Who is to blame for the high Unemployment rATE?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Why should there be confidence? Even if they didn't get bailed out, why should we trust these companies with our money?
    The fact is, they already have our money, they have trillions of dollars of American citizen's money sitting "in their vaults", telling the relatively uneducated American public that these companies that already have their hard-earned cash are going out of business is political suicide.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  3. #53
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: Who is to blame for the high Unemployment rATE?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    The fact is, they already have our money, they have trillions of dollars of American citizen's money sitting "in their vaults", telling the relatively uneducated American public that these companies that already have their hard-earned cash are going out of business is political suicide.
    It is political suicide, but we need to grow up and realize that the money is gone. Getting government to pay for it with inflation doesn't bring the wealth back.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  4. #54
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,261

    Re: Who is to blame for the high Unemployment rATE?

    We could just blame the liquidity trap, but that would let the politicians off the hook who did not allow a credible fiscal stimulus to emerge.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  5. #55
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    29,793

    Re: Who is to blame for the high Unemployment rATE?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    It is political suicide, but we need to grow up and realize that the money is gone. Getting government to pay for it with inflation doesn't bring the wealth back.
    You know that and I know that, but politicians live in a fantasy world and no politician is ever going to slit their own throat, even if the floor is falling out beneath them. Let's be realistic.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  6. #56
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: Who is to blame for the high Unemployment rATE?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    We could just blame the liquidity trap, but that would let the politicians off the hook who did not allow a credible fiscal stimulus to emerge.
    Oh yes, that same deflationary spiral that killed us during all the panics before the Great Depression. What anemic growth we had in that age.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  7. #57
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Who is to blame for the high Unemployment rATE?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Those companies were going down because of those mistakes. And voila, they are saved so they can continue those practices.
    What you are suggesting is never actually going to happen, and therefore we need to make laws that account for this reality. If the government had allowed financial institutions to fail in 2008, our entire financial sector would have collapsed because they all owed money to one another. Then there would be no one loaning money to anyone. Look at how big of a domino effect that even the failure of ONE large institution - Lehman Brothers - had on our financial system.

    Large financial institutions are ALWAYS going to be bailed out, especially in the midst of a financial crisis. Therefore we need financial regulations in place to minimize the frequency with which the taxpayers have to pick up the pieces for their mistakes.

    It's not about innovation in this case as much as it is about the elimination of bad business practices.
    Banning those bad business practices would also go a long way toward eliminating them. Virtually every bank that failed, failed because they took on too many risky investments. The smaller, local banks didn't have this problem, because they were more prudent with their money. The steps to running a successful bank are actually surprisingly simple: Loan money at a higher interest rate than you borrowed it, loan it to people/institutions who are good credit risks, and establish trust with your own creditors. More exotic financial items, like credit-default swaps and various other derivatives that are very far removed from the underlying asset, are rarely necessary and should be HIGHLY regulated.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  8. #58
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,261

    Re: Who is to blame for the high Unemployment rATE?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Oh yes, that same deflationary spiral that killed us during all the panics before the Great Depression. What anemic growth we had in that age.
    There is not (and does not a require) a deflationary spiral during this stage of the liquidity trap. We then can refer to our current situation as a jobless recovery trapped with liquidity.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  9. #59
    Sage
    whysoserious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Last Seen
    12-29-16 @ 03:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    8,170

    Re: Who is to blame for the high Unemployment rATE?

    Are those really the only options you are going to give? Clearly it is not only one thing, which is the first problem with your poll. Second, you did not even mention the giant economic collapse. Perhaps you should revisit economics 101. I cannot even vote because there is not a suitable answer.

    *Edit:

    And at Europe being an option. What does that even mean?
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

  10. #60
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: Who is to blame for the high Unemployment rATE?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    What you are suggesting is never actually going to happen, and therefore we need to make laws that account for this reality.
    That's not an attitude that in good conscience I can have. If something is wrong, I need to speak about it, rather than just accept it.

    If the government had allowed financial institutions to fail in 2008, our entire financial sector would have collapsed because they all owed money to one another. Then there would be no one loaning money to anyone. Look at how big of a domino effect that even the failure of ONE large institution - Lehman Brothers - had on our financial system.
    And it wouldn't have been built back up by now without the moral hazard? Oh I wonder what we did during the Panic of 1893. We did not save all of those companies, yet we did not go back to the stone age.

    Large financial institutions are ALWAYS going to be bailed out, especially in the midst of a financial crisis. Therefore we need financial regulations in place to minimize the frequency with which the taxpayers have to pick up the pieces for their mistakes.
    Just because that is the status quo does not mean that I have to accept it and find another solution.

    Banning those bad business practices would also go a long way toward eliminating them. Virtually every bank that failed, failed because they took on too many risky investments. The smaller, local banks didn't have this problem, because they were more prudent with their money. The steps to running a successful bank are actually surprisingly simple: Loan money at a higher interest rate than you borrowed it, loan it to people/institutions who are good credit risks, and establish trust with your own creditors. More exotic financial items, like credit-default swaps and various other derivatives that are very far removed from the underlying asset, are rarely necessary and should be HIGHLY regulated.
    The problem with this solution is that regulations cannot adequately define what is excessive risk and what isn't unlike how market mechanisms can truly show you what was right and what wasn't.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •