View Poll Results: Do you have children?

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  • Female: I have kid(s)/ I want kid(s)

    6 9.38%
  • Female: I don't want children

    2 3.13%
  • Male: I have kid(s)/ I want kid(s)

    30 46.88%
  • Male: I don't want children

    19 29.69%
  • other

    7 10.94%
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Thread: Do you want children?

  1. #231
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    Re: Do you want children?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no one ever said that it was.



    yes, and most of them tend to be of the self-fulfillment vein. we don't see birthrates increase as people become more affluent, we see them decrease.



    yet the poor can? your argument that people are choosing to have or not to have children based on their economic situation is precisely the opposite of the relevant statistics - the poor have higher birthrates than the wealthy, both here in the US and internationally. while we can (and should) try to find ways to reduce the cost of child-rearing in this nation, that doesn't translate to "more money" = "more kids"
    Middle income people have 1 to 2 children, poorer people have more but they also get government assistance and are less educated about birth control. I'd argue that part of the reason they are destitute is because they had children before a high school diploma and never achieved education after that.

  2. #232
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    Re: Do you want children?

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I disagree, raising children is easy and some people are horrible at. Some people have better kills to offer their society than trying to parent in the first place. Furthermore, some people are incapable of reproducing. The ability to reproduce has little or nothing to do with one's value.
    Need coffee? "is NOT easy" "better skills".

  3. #233
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    Re: Do you want children?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    ]

    no one mentioned race. we are talking about culture which is quite different.
    What's the difference between racial superiority and cultural superiority....

  4. #234
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    Re: Do you want children?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    we need to recreate a lot of our torn social fabric in this society. increasingly more of our children are raised in single parent homes and attend poor schools where they learn less. studies of American employment show that the tradable sectors are seeing anemic if any growth - which means we are losing our competitive edge. increasingly the economy will become dominated by an emphasis on intellectual ability, innovation, and world-wide competition. at the same time, we are choosing to balkanize our own society by not teaching the fastest growing large segment of it English - which means that future American prosperity will be hampered by our own inability to coordinate, communicate, and put our human resources to their highest productivity. meanwhile, the costs of our safety nets - designed for an industrial era society marked by higher birthrates and lower life expectancies - are set to explode exponentially.

    In short, we are raising a smaller, dumber generation, and we are giving them a heavier burden to carry in a world where their ability to do so will be determined by some of the very attributes we have denied them.


    Entitlements have to be reformed to bring them into a post-industrial model. Marriage in our society needs to become prevalent again - critically marriage without divorce in situations where there are young children. Our education system has to be reformed as well to make it and our students more competitive. Our tax and regulatory codes need to be drastically pared down and reformed in order to spur innovation - particularly in capital which will allow non-intellectual-workers to become more productive, increasing their worth in the marketplace. And yes, we need to find a way in our society to start encouraging child-rearing.

    we are nearing a tipping point; and each of these factors is synergistic. yes. we have very little time.
    I have no idea where you get this stuff. The problems our society is facing isn't due to a break down in the patriarchal structure... You can't raise your children to be cultural superior or raise your children to fix this nation's problems. All other people have a different idea of parenting, and fixing this nation entails constructive thinking and problem solving. It also takes leadership skills and things that cannot be taught to a child, they are skills a child has to develop.

    It's like your turning motherhood into a form of nationalism, and your arguments are tinged with sexism btw. I have talked with you before about this issue in some ways, and I know you think raising these cultural superior children is the woman's job.

  5. #235
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    Re: Do you want children?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    having and raising kids is heavy tilted positive. it could become negative if (for example) you raise mass-murderers; but generally speaking people are a vital and valuable resource for a society. and childfree people probably work - but so do child raisers. given that the child-raiser is not only working, but providing society with full citizens (with all of the increases in productivity, innovation, growth, tax revenue, etc that that entails), it would be rare (and exceedingly difficult) for a childless person to contribute more to society than a parent.



    besides, most of our generation that doesn't have kids won't sit on their hands. they will use their hands to look up funny videos on youtube.
    Well, Oprah doesn't have kids.... wtf. Are you saying you have done more for society and for the world than she has?

  6. #236
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    Re: Do you want children?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Yes, I do want children. My wife and I are trying to have our first.
    If you don't kick your leg the right way, it won't happen.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  7. #237
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    Re: Do you want children?

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Well, Oprah doesn't have kids.... wtf. Are you saying you have done more for society and for the world than she has?
    Why didn't you pick the other extreme of the poor crack momma?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  8. #238
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    Re: Do you want children?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Why didn't you pick the other extreme of the poor crack momma?
    Yup! that works just as well. According to CPWill, she's done more of worth than any childfree woman.

  9. #239
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    Re: Do you want children?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    agreed. this is why childless unmarried women earn more than childless unmarried men. however, the value added there is to them personally in the immediate (in the form of increased salary) and to the business in particular. Society, however, see's a net loss - because the value added of the individual is only exceedingly rarely that of the full value added of future citizens. for example, were my two boys to disappear and my wife enter the workforce full time - she would have to make up in the 15-ish years that she would have otherwise been out of it the full work-life value of both of my sons, just for us to break even. Given that the most powerful indicator of a childs' direction is usually the parents, this is a game that one would be extremely unlikely to beat. For example, if Person A would earn a lifetime average of $40K with kids, but $75K without them, and would otherwise have raised two children who each would have earned $50K; then the advantage to society of that person choosing to focus on their work rather than raise children is not $35,000 a year annualized, but rather negative $65K.
    I think it's funny that you think that people who have kids actually raise them. Your patriarchal bias is showing. Both parents can work, and in many times they do... and when that's the case the kid's are usually at babysitters and some people even have nanny's. Through in the fact that working families usually use kindergarten and elementary school as a free babysitter, and arranging play dates for their friends and you get a lot of hands off parents and parenting.

    Your wife is stay at home, so she raises the kids and you pretty much don't... You work and support them, which isn't any different than you personally raising them, so why are you any more valuable than somebody who doesn't have kids and doesn't raise a child?

    On top of that, child free may parent as much as you do. I am child free for now, but I babysit my nieces. I also donate time and money to my community like my brother, but I haven't done near as much as he has. I am also seven years his junior, so we'll see... If I have kids it doesn't mean I am less valuable to my society.

    Your arguments are really demented IMO, because you'll find very little people who share your opinions... As I said, I think it boils down to sexism and cultural superiority. And I dare say you probably couldn't handle your wife wants to work, you'd probably tell her know, her value is raising the kids... and I find that disgusting and controlling.


    which sort of sinks your earlier "people don't have kids because they can't afford to" thesis. people don't have kids because they are more focused on themselves and what they are doing.
    People have the economic freedom to determine if they can afford kids or not. If they want a more expensive house then your house, and plan on making the payments responsibility, then it's true they probably can't afford to have kids.


    on the contrary, the vast majority of parents have done something definitively positive for the world. it is the childless who generally are more prone to feel that life lacks meaning.
    Your arguments aren't winning any hearts here... If their life lacks purpose and meaning, then they can have kids. If it's too late, they can adopt kids.

  10. #240
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    Re: Do you want children?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    your prescription is off - government did not do these things when our birthrate was higher. this is fundamentally a social problem, not one of governance.
    And raising children was less expensive then

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