If the debt ceiling is not raised...

...there are two choices:

1: Cut spending to match revenue and default on the debt
2: Cut spending to match revenue and pay the debt service from those revenues

Which do you choose?

...how much could we make off the sale of Hawaii and Alaska?

First we need to find a way to the dumb-ass Obama to take responsibly for his mistakes and then make sure he is not allowed to make any more but not passing anything he is going to be lying about until he's replaced.

Since Obama took office Federal revenue is up 20% and Obama's spending is up 60% and Bush didn't waste all the money. Obama did, and on 100% failed programs.

We have to cut spending and start with the White House. The Obama's as I keep saying are spending like welfare recipients who won the Lotto.

Then go after and kill all port unless it creates private sector jobs, reduce regulations Federal and State that drive business either off shore or out of State.

Leave the rich along because they create jobs, and don't dive me the Liberal BS about they and Big business are making record profit but are not hiring.

There is no reason to hire when there is little consumer demand and fear of Obama's next blunder makes tomorrow's economy uncertain.

I could fill a book with better ideas than Obama has had, and than I have heard from any GOP candidate either.

Councilman said:

First we need to find a way to the dumb-ass Obama to take responsibly for his mistakes and then make sure he is not allowed to make any more but not passing anything he is going to be lying about until he's replaced.

Since Obama took office Federal revenue is up 20% and Obama's spending is up 60% and Bush didn't waste all the money. Obama did, and on 100% failed programs.

We have to cut spending and start with the White House. The Obama's as I keep saying are spending like welfare recipients who won the Lotto.

Then go after and kill all port unless it creates private sector jobs, reduce regulations Federal and State that drive business either off shore or out of State.

Leave the rich along because they create jobs, and don't dive me the Liberal BS about they and Big business are making record profit but are not hiring.

There is no reason to hire when there is little consumer demand and fear of Obama's next blunder makes tomorrow's economy uncertain.

I could fill a book with better ideas than Obama has had, and than I have heard from any GOP candidate either.

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Wow.. I have never seen a post full of such lies and misinformation.. Well.. Except the last time I read a post written b y a conservative..

So the rich create jobs?? Really?? Are you sure?? Because the last I checked the unemployment rate sky rocketed after we gave the rich tax cuts.. So where are these jobs you speak of?? Are we not at around 9% unemployment?? We have had the tax cuts for almost 10 years now.. Where are the jobs.. With an investment of 3.2 trillion over 10 years.. We should have a lower unemployment rate shouldn't we??

Federal revenue up 20%??? Really?? Link it or your full of it..

What mistakes has Obama made and what does he need to take responsibility for??

Welfare recipients won the lotto?? All live so far below the poverty level it is sickening.. Just like your ignorance.. How about an extra 320 billion a year?? Let the damn tax cuts for rich expire.. Those tax cuts are getting us nothing in return.. You would be better off giving that 320 billion to the poor.. At least they will dump it back into the economy instead of just letting sit in the bank with their other millions.. There is some demand for you.. Where are the jobs??

There is no consumer demand moron because much of the middle class has become poor or worse.. Where are the jobs?? You can't take mony from the poor and give it to the rich and expect the poor to have money to buy stuff.. Cut the damn tax cuts..

Now why don't you learn to accept responsibility for supporting a party that has done nothing to create jobs.. You want to know what is wrong with the economy?? Go look in the mirror..

Ignore the debt limit and issue more?

Since letting the tax cuts expire wasn't on the list.. I can see that you really don't care about the economy.. It is hard to fix it when you are unwilling to address one of the reasons we are where we are now.. Bush's main reason for the tax cut was the budget surplus he had when he took office.. Instead of use it to pay off the debt, or use it to help pay for the war after 9/11, he gave it to the rich to do nothing with it.. Now there is brains at work..

Also.. Always remember.. The deficit we have now?? Bush created..

There can be no fixing of the economy until two things happen.. The rich pay their share and you all help look for ways to get people working again.. Until that time.. Only republicans are to blame..

tessaesque said:

...how much could we make off the sale of Hawaii and Alaska?

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I dare say, sell Hawaii and keep Alaska and drill drill drill in Alaska and sell that for a profit.

Why do you lean "undisclosed"? With those comments you coulld be Bertha Lewis>

1. Clinton's budget surplus was no where near enough to pay off the debt under his adm. There was a surplus of $1.9 billion in fiscal 1999 and $86.4 billion in fiscal 2000.
The debt increased under Clinton from 3.6 trillion in 91 to 5.6 trillion in 2000. Know your facts, not your bumper sticker
2. How much should the rich pay? What is fair in your wonderland?

DemonMyst said:

Since letting the tax cuts expire wasn't on the list.. I can see that you really don't care about the economy.. It is hard to fix it when you are unwilling to address one of the reasons we are where we are now.. Bush's main reason for the tax cut was the budget surplus he had when he took office.. Instead of use it to pay off the debt, or use it to help pay for the war after 9/11, he gave it to the rich to do nothing with it.. Now there is brains at work..

Also.. Always remember.. The deficit we have now?? Bush created..

There can be no fixing of the economy until two things happen.. The rich pay their share and you all help look for ways to get people working again.. Until that time.. Only republicans are to blame..

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What it all boils down to is either A) I am looting if our government crumbles in the long run so I give you all fair warning if you are within 100 miles radius of me to be packing or B) The debt ceiling will get raised. Why is it that these Republicans have no damn problem raising it when another Republican is in office but a Democrat is there and they all get sand in their vaginas over it? Because it's a game to them. A game that will end in the democrats bowing to their demands, Americans getting more ****ed over, and the debt ceiling getting raised.

PzKfW IVe said:

...there are two choices:

1: Cut spending to match revenue and default on the debt
2: Cut spending to match revenue and pay the debt service from those revenues

Which do you choose?

Click to expand...

I bet neither one is the choice. So your poll is ,um, well not informed enough.

Councilman, how is your retirement doing? You have followed the advice of conservatives haven't you? I'm just thinking with such an emotional post that you’re having a personal problem with this economy. All the conservatives I know that are benefiting now, and they are just arguing for the deserving and working poor.

PzKfW IVe said:

...there are two choices:

1: Cut spending to match revenue and default on the debt
2: Cut spending to match revenue and pay the debt service from those revenues

Which do you choose?

Click to expand...

I choose:
3. The White House directs the Treasury to ignore the debt ceiling and borrow money anyway, and dares Congress to do anything about it.

DemonMyst said:

Since letting the tax cuts expire wasn't on the list...

Click to expand...

Is that part of the package offered by The Obama and/or the Dems? Nope.

I can see that you really don't care about the economy.

Click to expand...

I can see that you really dont care about discussing the issue at hand.

It is hard to fix it when you are unwilling to address one of the reasons we are where we are now.. Bush's main reason for the tax

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It will be hard for yout to have a conversation on this subject when you are unable to grasp the reality of the issue.
The 2001/2003 tax cuts 'cost' no more than 1.5T since 2001. That's $150B/yr. Take that away and thge debt ceiling discussion happend July 2012 instead of now.

Instead of use it to pay off the debt, or use it to help pay for the war after 9/11, he gave it to the rich to do nothing with it.. Now there is brains at work.

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Tell me again why The Obama forced the Dems to extend the tax cuts?

Also.. Always remember.. The deficit we have now?? Bush created.

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Partisan bigotry at its finest.
:clap:

Kandahar said:

I choose:
3. The White House directs the Treasury to ignore the debt ceiling and borrow money anyway, and dares Congress to do anything about it.

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Yes... because The Obama (D) can simply ignore the law when it suits him.

PzKfW IVe said:

Yes... because The Obama (D) can simply ignore the law when it suits him.

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Congress has given him no choice but to ignore the law. It's just a question of whether he ignores the debt ceiling law or the budget law. He cannot follow both, because they contradict one another.

Kandahar said:

Congress has given him no choice but to ignore the law. It's just a question of whether he ignores the debt ceiling law or the budget law. He cannot follow both, because they contradict one another.

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:lol:
Spending is -contingent- on available revenue.
If there's no revenue, there's no spending. That -follows- the law.

PzKfW IVe said:

:lol:
Spending is -contingent- on available revenue.
If there's no revenue, there's no spending. That -follows- the law.

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To the best of my knowledge there is no clause in the 2011 federal budget which specifies that the Treasury should only fund these various agencies under certain circumstances. That isn't how budgets generally work; they just direct the Treasury to dole out $X to this agency, $Y to this program, and so on. If Congress wanted to make their own budgetary allocations contingent on some other factor (e.g. the debt ceiling), they could have written it into the law when they passed the budget. But as far as I know, they did not.

President Regan once said

The single most important question facing us tonight is: Do we reduce deficits and interest rates by raising revenue from those who are not now paying their fair share—or do we accept bigger budget deficits, higher interest rates and higher unemployment… We’re within sight of a safe port of economic recovery. Do we make port or go aground on the shoals of selfishness, partisanship and just plain bullheadedness? (Televised speech, August 16, 1982.)

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One thing is for sure: with this much divisiveness the country isn't going to get out of its debts. Both parties are trying to blame each other in a desperate attempt to win the popular vote.

All most politicians think about nowadays is their own political careers. **** the country. I want more power. You're the impostor. I don't care about your stupid initiatives and proposals as long as I get re-elected into office. Washington has turned into a real jungle.

Politics has become very dirty, folks. With nobody representing the American people anymore, I think we're going to have to either emigrate to another country or vote them all out and start looking at seemingly more serious and reasonable options (third party candidates).

Kandahar said:

I choose:
3. The White House directs the Treasury to ignore the debt ceiling and borrow money anyway, and dares Congress to do anything about it.

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That'll set a great precedent.

phattonez said:

That'll set a great precedent.

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So will defaulting on our debt (regardless of whether we literally default, or just de-facto default by stop paying OTHER obligations). The entire concept of the debt ceiling is ridiculous. It's just a disaster waiting to happen; it should be repealed entirely.

Kandahar said:

So will defaulting on our debt (regardless of whether we literally default, or just de-facto default by stop paying OTHER obligations). The entire concept of the debt ceiling is ridiculous. It's just a disaster waiting to happen; it should be repealed entirely.

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It is meant to keep our budgets realistic, and now is the time when it was really meant to play a role and force us to balance our budget. If we ignore it now, then it is just another worthless law.

tessaesque said:

...how much could we make off the sale of Hawaii and Alaska?

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alaska has oil and hawaii has girls in grass skirts. sell the southern portion of California. :lol:




seriously, the government does have alot of stuff it could sell - it's the largest landowner and it's not using alot of that stuff. limousines in the government fleet have exploded in the last couple of years; i would suggest we don't need all those as well. Gold is selling pretty high, and it strikes me that we have quite a bit of that as well...

Kandahar said:

I choose:
3. The White House directs the Treasury to ignore the debt ceiling and borrow money anyway, and dares Congress to do anything about it.

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i am thinking if your goal is stable markets, that is not the path you want.



unless you think a Constitutional Showdown where nobody even knows if the new debt is legal or would therefore be honored would be beneficial. but it's hard to imagine a situation where the President of the United States going on trial would stabilize markets dependent on him and congress striking compromises.

phattonez said:

It is meant to keep our budgets realistic,

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Congress has always raised the debt ceiling when it has needed to raise the debt ceiling, and always will (although sooner or later they might push the brinkmanship too far and wait until AFTER we're in default to raise the debt ceiling). Therefore it does nothing to keep the budgets realistic; Congress routinely passes budgets that it knows will exceed the debt ceiling.

and now is the time when it was really meant to play a role and force us to balance our budget. If we ignore it now, then it is just another worthless law.

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Where do you suggest we find 43% of the budget to eliminate in the next four weeks?