View Poll Results: Which do you choose

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  • Cut spending to match revenue and default on the debt

    3 10.71%
  • Cut spending to match revenue and pay the debt service from that revenue

    17 60.71%
  • Other (specify)

    8 28.57%
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Thread: If the debt ceiling is not raised...

  1. #51
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    Re: If the debt ceiling is not raised...

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Lets not forget that the debt limit was raised 7 times under President Bush - that's almost once per year in office. And much of the debt today is because of the lose if Income tax revenue due the downturn economy. Plus the tax rates haven't been lower in like 50 years.
    this is a somewhat misleading statement - what you mean to say is that tax revenue as a percentage of the economy hasn't been lower in 50 years. but that is a result of the expansion of government and persistent high unemployment - not tax rates, which have not changed from 2007 (when revenue was above the historical average).

  2. #52
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    Re: If the debt ceiling is not raised...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    A national sales tax would of course hit the poorest the hardest.
    unless, of course, it was matched with a prebate. but that's a debate for another thread.

  3. #53
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    Re: If the debt ceiling is not raised...

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonMyst View Post
    So let me get this straight?? You are complaining because the surplus wasn't big enough?? ROFL!!! You just totally shot yourself in the foot.. When was the last time a president took offive with a budget surplus?? How much did Bush grow the deficit and the debt?? Give me a break dude!!

    President Clinton announces another record budget surplus - CNN

    The surplus was $230 billion according to this..

    PRESIDENT CLINTON: THE LARGEST BUDGET SURPLUS AND DEBT PAY-DOWN IN HISTORY

    Another one that puts it over $100 billion..

    The Budget and Deficit Under Clinton | FactCheck.org

    $200 billion here.. Seems to me you are simply wrong..

    Have a nice day..
    borrowing from Social Security =/= surplus.

  4. #54
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    Re: If the debt ceiling is not raised...

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonMyst View Post
    So let me get this straight?? You are complaining because the surplus wasn't big enough?? ROFL!!! You just totally shot yourself in the foot.. When was the last time a president took offive with a budget surplus?? How much did Bush grow the deficit and the debt?? Give me a break dude!!

    President Clinton announces another record budget surplus - CNN

    The surplus was $230 billion according to this..

    PRESIDENT CLINTON: THE LARGEST BUDGET SURPLUS AND DEBT PAY-DOWN IN HISTORY

    Another one that puts it over $100 billion..

    The Budget and Deficit Under Clinton | FactCheck.org

    $200 billion here.. Seems to me you are simply wrong..

    Have a nice day..
    That budget surplus didn't mean ****. The debt still increased under Clinton. And I'm sorry, but $230 billion isn't even a drop in the bucket against the debt. I don't know why people keep referring to the budget surplus as if it were heaven sent and solved all of our problems, or as if it was indicative of a change in government spending. There were tax increases under Bush1 and Clinton had welfare reform. Still, none of those changes brought about significant savings and didn't reverse or stop increases in the national debt.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  5. #55
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    Re: If the debt ceiling is not raised...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    You seem to have missed that they are not investing it but sitting on it. I am NOT willing to pay more taxes to make up for what we paid for the sleazebags. Let's make something else clear. Creating bubbles is not "investment". That is just about all Wall Street is good at today.

    A tax on trades will not harm investments either. If you are investing in something, you aren't in-out-in-out-in-out-in-out.
    If they're supposedly sitting on it, then how will a capital gains tax get that money back? And what about people like me who invest extra income in order to get a better interest rate on my savings? Why should I be harmed when I already pay an income tax on that money?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  6. #56
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    Re: If the debt ceiling is not raised...

    Quote Originally Posted by DashingAmerican View Post
    I think we should add a national sales tax and close the tax loopholes. There shouldn't be any loopholes at all when it comes to taxes.
    We would end up with a national sales tax and an income tax. The feds already get enough money.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  7. #57
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    Re: If the debt ceiling is not raised...

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    If they're supposedly sitting on it, then how will a capital gains tax get that money back? And what about people like me who invest extra income in order to get a better interest rate on my savings? Why should I be harmed when I already pay an income tax on that money?
    FDR ran through an "uninvested dividends tax". I could see them trying for that again.

  8. #58
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    Re: If the debt ceiling is not raised...

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    FDR ran through an "uninvested dividends tax". I could see them trying for that again.
    What's laughable to me is that people make the claim that the rich are just sitting on this cash. That is nonsense. Anyone with half a brain would have their wealth in some kind of commodity or some investment. Nobody would have their money in a savings account or just stuffed into their mattress. That's an investment scheme that is a sure loser. If we want the rich to invest in companies again as opposed to just securing their wealth, then maybe we should stop messing with the monetary base so that investors can make more accurate predictions about future costs of production. That more than anything else (though threats of new taxation and regulations are up there as well) is what is prohibiting investment in expansion and hiring.
    Last edited by phattonez; 07-12-11 at 12:52 PM.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  9. #59
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    Re: If the debt ceiling is not raised...

    It is hard to take anyone seriously who would use a cable news outlet as a reference. Also use of the term "Dude" tells me that you are are also immature as well as being uninformed.
    Factcheck.org and the Clinton Surplus

    Read the board make sure you understand it then comment. Putting ones mouth in motion b/4 engaging your brain does not project a bright image.




    Quote Originally Posted by DemonMyst View Post
    So let me get this straight?? You are complaining because the surplus wasn't big enough?? ROFL!!! You just totally shot yourself in the foot.. When was the last time a president took offive with a budget surplus?? How much did Bush grow the deficit and the debt?? Give me a break dude!!

    President Clinton announces another record budget surplus - CNN

    The surplus was $230 billion according to this..

    PRESIDENT CLINTON: THE LARGEST BUDGET SURPLUS AND DEBT PAY-DOWN IN HISTORY

    Another one that puts it over $100 billion..

    The Budget and Deficit Under Clinton | FactCheck.org

    $200 billion here.. Seems to me you are simply wrong..

    Have a nice day..

  10. #60
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    Re: If the debt ceiling is not raised...

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    What's laughable to me is that people make the claim that the rich are just sitting on this cash. That is nonsense. Anyone with half a brain would have their wealth in some kind of commodity or some investment. Nobody would have their money in a savings account or just stuffed into their mattress. That's an investment scheme that is a sure loser. If we want the rich to invest in companies again as opposed to just securing their wealth, then maybe we should stop messing with the monetary base so that investors can make more accurate predictions about future costs of production. That more than anything else (though threats of new taxation and regulations are up there as well) is what is prohibiting investment in expansion and hiring.
    no no no, see, the rich got that way by being really really stupid with money. they can't wait to put all of their wealth into an investment that is guaranteed to lose real value at a constant rate.


    i mean gosh. everyone knows that.

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