View Poll Results: Would you allow conscientious objection while in the military?

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Thread: Conscientious objection when in the military

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    Conscientious objection when in the military

    A Royal Navy medic refused to undergo rifle training on "moral and ethical grounds" ahead of deployment to Afghanistan, a court martial has heard.

    Leading Medical Assistant Michael Lyons, 24, of Plymouth, Devon, is accused of wilful disobedience over the incident in Portsmouth last year.

    Full Story here
    Would you court martial this man? Would you allow conscientious objection within the armed forces?

    My position is that the medic should be court martialled, in essence as a volunteer (we don't conscript or draft recruits) he signed, swore an oath and then refused a specific part of his military training. If he had been sent off to a war zone he would have become a liability.

    You cannot pick and choose military assignment either!

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    Re: Conscientious objection when in the military

    I don't think the situation above outlines the exact situations I had in mind, but you actually can often choose military assignment. Some people have moral scruples against institutionalized and organized murder and the idea of war in general. They should be allowed to contribute in other ways.

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    Re: Conscientious objection when in the military

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Would you court martial this man? Would you allow conscientious objection within the armed forces?

    My position is that the medic should be court martialled, in essence as a volunteer (we don't conscript or draft recruits) he signed, swore an oath and then refused a specific part of his military training. If he had been sent off to a war zone he would have become a liability.

    You cannot pick and choose military assignment either!
    Damn, this is tricky. Excellent question.

    On the one hand, all volunteer force(I believe in England anyway), if you are going to volunteer, it's pretty silly to be a conscientious objector. Further, he is not being asked to shoot any one, he is being trained to use a rifle. lastly, you don't agree to serve if you feel like it when you sign up, you agree to serve when and how asked.

    On the other hand, medic is a high demand job where using a rifle should not be needed, and it is a job where some one who objects on moral grounds from killing should still be able to serve. The should be, and I believe is, a path to be declared a conscientious objector while serving, but that should not keep you from serving.

    Overall, it really depends on how their rules on conscientious objectors are. Too much just unknown in this case to really say. I would lean towards yes, he should be prosecuted since what he refused was training however, and no one should ever be able to choose where or if they deploy.
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    Re: Conscientious objection when in the military

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Would you court martial this man?
    yes.

    Would you allow conscientious objection within the armed forces?
    No. If you want to be a pussy then do not join a occupation that involves the strong likelihood of you putting a bullet in someone.

    My position is that the medic should be court martialled, in essence as a volunteer (we don't conscript or draft recruits) he signed, swore an oath and then refused a specific part of his military training. If he had been sent off to a war zone he would have become a liability.
    Unless the combat medics I met when I was a infantry soldier were lying they told me that according to Geneva convention rules they get special protections and are not allowed to fire at the enemy. So a combat medic would not be doing any killing.


    You cannot pick and choose military assignment either!
    I do not know why some people act like you can. I have heard of cash sign on bonus, military schools sign on bonuses and duty station sign on bonuses but I have never heard of a fight only in the wars you want to sign on bonuses.


    If he wanted to be a pussy then he should not have joined the military. Besides that every combat medic I have met in the army while field training has said that combat medics are not allowed to fire at the enemy and have Geneva convention protections, they carry handgun only for personal protection and forfeit any Geneva convention protections if they fire on any enemy troops.SO I am pretty sure this applies to British.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 07-05-11 at 04:51 AM.
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    Re: Conscientious objection when in the military

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    No. If you want to be a pussy then do not join a occupation that involves the strong likelihood of you putting a bullet in someone..
    The medic is the guy who saves my ass on the battlefield, armed or not.

    I'm not sure what to think about this, but calling him a "pussy" is pretty low brow.

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    Re: Conscientious objection when in the military

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    The medic is the guy who saves my ass on the battlefield, armed or not.

    I'm not sure what to think about this, but calling him a "pussy" is pretty low brow.
    Using the conscience objector bull**** to weasel out of your military service makes you a pussy. Using bull**** conscience objector status to weasel out of your duty because you disagree with the war not only makes you a pussy but a piece of **** as well. He out of his own free will knowingly joined a warfare occupation. That means getting trained to put a bullet in someone and depending on MOS that could also mean possibly dropping a bomb on someone, firing a large projectile at someone or some other method or tool to kill someone.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 07-05-11 at 05:11 AM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Conscientious objection when in the military

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Would you court martial this man? Would you allow conscientious objection within the armed forces?
    My position is that the medic should be court martialled, in essence as a volunteer (we don't conscript or draft recruits) he signed, swore an oath and then refused a specific part of his military training. If he had been sent off to a war zone he would have become a liability.

    You cannot pick and choose military assignment either!
    Yes. There isn't anything immoral or unethical about being trained with a rifle. No I would not allow conscientious objections, because, hey you signed up for it. I'd only accept it in the case of draftees.
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    Re: Conscientious objection when in the military

    if you are going to volunteer, it's pretty silly to be a conscientious objector.
    Not necessarily ... many people who objected to the Viet Nam police action volunteered and served in VN. Conscientious objection isn't synonymous with non-violence or being opposed to war in general. Many of the objectors also didn't want to have somebody else have to serve in their place; that wouldn't have been fair, either.

    Further, he is not being asked to shoot any one, he is being trained to use a rifle.
    Well, he singed up for the military, not the Boy Scouts or the Red Cross. All the medics I ever ran across were armed, and many used their arms in combat; that's why they're part of units, and not just randomly wandering around saving everybody ... it's just another MOS.

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    Re: Conscientious objection when in the military

    It seems as though medical people and clergy can be Conscientious Objectors - someone like a member of the Seals, or infantry, or other combat troops should NEVER be against fighting.

    Also - some people know that if they were in a war to kill they would probably loose grasp of the ability to stop killing and they too should be allowed to object due to the well being of society and self.

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    Re: Conscientious objection when in the military

    One canít be in the military and be a conscientious objector. Job descriptions are not in concrete.
    When I was drafted, the job I would get wasnít up to me at all. When I joined the Air Farce, I wasnít given any choice. All the Air Farce said was that I tested so high that Iíd end up doing a high tech job. However, I was taught to fire a rifle, I was good at it. And this medic wants to be a CO. Imagine being injured and attacked in the field and you have a medic tending you that wonít and canít protect the two of you by using your rifle.

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