View Poll Results: New states?

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Thread: New states?

  1. #131
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    So why do you make an exception for us, if you don't think that everyone ELSE in the world who can leave their place of residence deserves to live in a dictatorship?
    Because DC is not the World. Its one small little blip of the entire world that was specifically designed to hold the federal government in order to not show favortism to any specific state and to try and help prevent corruption. IMO every country should have a capitol just like it. Only they should add what our founders failed to add. That of making sure that no one lived there beyond the President (or equivalent) and his family and those that have to be near him 24/7. Everyone else can travel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I'd suggest you lobby your state government to change the law more to your liking, and/or assemble a coalition of voters to elect a new state government which will then change the law. Two things which you can do, but we DC residents cannot. At some point in the last 0-4 years, the voters of your state elected the government that set or preserved those education laws; we DC residents did not vote for a dictatorship.
    What good would that do me now? It takes years to get things like that rolling and fixed.
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  2. #132
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Because DC is not the World.
    No ****ing ****. That's why I'm asking why you are making an EXCEPTION for DC; why you think that other people in the world should be able to have democracy but not DC. So far you have provided no answer whatsoever.

    Its one small little blip of the entire world that was specifically designed to hold the federal government in order to not show favortism to any specific state and to try and help prevent corruption.
    Let's take these one at a time:

    "Not show favoritism to any specific state." - News flash: We already house the federal government and take in federal money, whether you call us a state or a district. Maryland and Virginia do too. And there is already plenty of favoritism to specific states based on what federal government assets sit within their boundaries...have you ever witnessed the pathetic spectacle of a congressional hearing on military base closures? Therefore this is no reason to deny DC voters democracy.

    "Prevent corruption." - How does denying DC democracy accomplish this goal?

    IMO every country should have a capitol just like it.
    You mean a capital where the residents are oppressed for no particular reason?

    Only they should add what our founders failed to add. That of making sure that no one lived there beyond the President (or equivalent) and his family and those that have to be near him 24/7. Everyone else can travel.
    Wherever you have a seat of government you're going to have a city. And while I wouldn't be opposed to having some federal offices more dispersed around the country, it makes logistical sense to have many of them in close physical proximity.

    What good would that do me now? It takes years to get things like that rolling and fixed.
    Then you'd better get on it. If you don't like the law in your state, you have the power to vote your government out of office and replace it with a better government that passes laws that are more favorable to you. We in the District do NOT have that luxury. Every decision that our city council makes can be, and is frequently, vetoed by a Congress that we did not elect.

    I mean, it would be oppressive enough (and still totally unacceptable) if Congress had veto power over our council's decisions even if we WERE represented in Congress, as no other government in the country is subject being second-guessed by Congress like that. But to not even give us representation in the body that can veto our decisions is ****ing authoritarian bull****.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 07-07-11 at 02:53 AM.
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  3. #133
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    Re: New states?

    Somehow I'm still not convinced.

  4. #134
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Are there any other parts of the world where you think people don't deserve democracy because they can always leave? Cuba, maybe? China?



    This is supposed to be a democratic nation. You can't have the principles of representative democracy apply in SOME places and not others. It's ridiculous that our federal government throws its weight around so much trying to "spread democracy" to parts of the world where we have very little control over democratic development...yet it denies democracy to the one place in the world where it has TOTAL control.
    I would say that where areas of government have federal separation and have specifically create a small area to specifically hold the federal government, I am okay with people who choose to live in those specifically set up lands giving up some rights. This is a democratic nation. Those principles and the separation of powers is what created DC in the first place.

  5. #135
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    Re: New states?

    Let's be honest: it's because there would be more assuredly liberal votes in Congress. That's why the vast, vast, vast majority of people who don't want DC to have Congressional representation want what they want.

    For people like me, who find liberals and conservatives equally disgusting and mindless, it's just a simple matter of disenfranchising half a million people for no good reason.
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  6. #136
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nanten Janubi View Post
    Let's be honest: it's because there would be more assuredly liberal votes in Congress. That's why the vast, vast, vast majority of people who don't want DC to have Congressional representation want what they want.

    For people like me, who find liberals and conservatives equally disgusting and mindless, it's just a simple matter of disenfranchising half a million people for no good reason.
    Please stop. This is not about being Democrat or Republican. The Dems could have 15 extra seats in the House and they still wouldn't have the balls to use them. This is about the clear reasons that created DC in the first place and holding to those reasons because they are still valid.

  7. #137
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Because DC is not the World. Its one small little blip of the entire world that was specifically designed to hold the federal government in order to not show favortism to any specific state and to try and help prevent corruption. IMO every country should have a capitol just like it. Only they should add what our founders failed to add. That of making sure that no one lived there beyond the President (or equivalent) and his family and those that have to be near him 24/7. Everyone else can travel.
    Hold on there. This "Founding Fathers" bullcrap about Washington needs to stop. They did not establish a Capital City to merely be the "seat of government" and it wasn't to "not show favoritism." Quite the opposite -- it is located where it is as a bone thrown to James Madison, in order to get his support for the Bank of the United States. It is also located where it is to placate the Southern slave states of the time (Maryland and Virginia were both slave states).

    If they wished for nobody to live there, Washington himself probably would have stopped L'Enfant from planning for residential areas, and it wouldn't be half the size it is.


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  8. #138
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Hold on there. This "Founding Fathers" bullcrap about Washington needs to stop. They did not establish a Capital City to merely be the "seat of government" and it wasn't to "not show favoritism." Quite the opposite -- it is located where it is as a bone thrown to James Madison, in order to get his support for the Bank of the United States. It is also located where it is to placate the Southern slave states of the time (Maryland and Virginia were both slave states).

    If they wished for nobody to live there, Washington himself probably would have stopped L'Enfant from planning for residential areas, and it wouldn't be half the size it is.
    And if they had planned for Washington to have a seat on the Senate then they would have made it a state, or at least provided a way to have a seat in the senate. Also if you will notice I bash on the FF's for NOT making it to where people wouldn't be allowed to live there.
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  9. #139
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    And if they had planned for Washington to have a seat on the Senate then they would have made it a state, or at least provided a way to have a seat in the senate.
    So what? Arguments along the lines of "DC shouldn't be a state because that's what the Founding Fathers wanted" are nothing more than an appeal to authority.

    Also if you will notice I bash on the FF's for NOT making it to where people wouldn't be allowed to live there.
    The only world capital that I'm aware of where average citizens aren't allowed to live is Naypyidaw, Burma...hardly the best role model for good governance. In fact, that policy was made deliberately to minimize the risk of uprising and make it easier for Burma to oppress its people. And even that draconian measure didn't work, as Burma's new capital city already has 900,000 people...about 50% more than DC.

    Anywhere you have a seat of government, you're going to have a city. And if you look at the largest cities in the world, a good many of them are capital cities. Virtually every important country in the world has at least a mid-sized capital city. This silliness about banning people from living near the seat of government is absurd, and has never worked anywhere.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 07-08-11 at 03:08 AM.
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  10. #140
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    So what? Arguments along the lines of "DC shouldn't be a state because that's what the Founding Fathers wanted" are nothing more than an appeal to authority.
    I agree with the FF's reasoning for creating a capitol that was not a state. It has nothing to do with it being "because that's what the Founding Fathers wanted" that you are trying to push. In case you hadn't noticed I have no problem bashing the FF's for the stupid crap that they did, or that I believe that they did. So seriously...try attacking the reasoning instead of trying to push out an idea that you think is the reason for agreeing with the FF's. You have yet to really address the reasoning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The only world capital that I'm aware of where average citizens aren't allowed to live is Naypyidaw, Burma...hardly the best role model for good governance. In fact, that policy was made deliberately to minimize the risk of uprising and make it easier for Burma to oppress its people. And even that draconian measure didn't work, as Burma's new capital city already has 900,000 people...about 50% more than DC.
    Ah yes...use a communist based government to push the idea that an area dedicated to a democratic republic government and not living areas for general citizens is a bad idea. Good call.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Anywhere you have a seat of government, you're going to have a city. And if you look at the largest cities in the world, a good many of them are capital cities. Virtually every important country in the world has at least a mid-sized capital city. This silliness about banning people from living near the seat of government is absurd, and has never worked anywhere.
    The only reason that Capitols are generally in a city is a hold over from days before such easy transportation that we have today. It wouldn't exactly make sense to build a capitol where it would take days or months to get decree's out to a cities population now would it? Not to mention it was also done for reasons of security. But in today's technological society there is no longer that reasoning.

    Seriously, think about it for a minute. What would be the harm in having an area that was strictly for the government in today's society? Now what would be the benefits?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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