View Poll Results: New states?

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    23 74.19%
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    3 9.68%
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Thread: New states?

  1. #121
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Of course they weren't but the idea behind limiting the the capital was brilliant.

    First, being a member of Congress was never and should never be a full time job.
    DC has about 600,000 people. 599,565 of them are not members of Congress. And the ones who are wouldn't be voting in DC anyway.

    Second, creating a state that is also the seat of the federal government with essentially unlimited funds, paid for by the rest of the nation, is incredibly unethical.
    Government money is coming into the District (as well as Maryland and Virginia) whether you call it a "district" or a "state." The only thing that denying DC statehood does, is to disenfranchise the people who live here.

    Third, having the population have additional representation will cause further misappropriation of funds to the capital state.
    Many federal offices are located in Maryland and Virginia, and there are military bases all across the country.

    So no thanks, DC residents don't need to have anymore representation than they already do.
    More than we already do? We don't have any. We can't even control our own city council without the dictatorship known as Congress vetoing their actions.
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  2. #122
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    Because DC was specifically created to hold the US government on independent land. It is all federal land. If you were born there, sorry but the Federal government being independent is more important to the people of DC getting Congressional representation since there are alternatives. If you moved there, then you knew what you were getting into.
    Are there any other parts of the world where you think people don't deserve democracy because they can always leave? Cuba, maybe? China?

    I might add that if the roles were reversed and Philly was the nations capital on Federal land and created specifically to hold the Federal government outside of any States control, then the same rules would apply. I moved to Philly. I would have known that moving here would mean that I wouldn't get representation. If I had a significant issue with this (which I probably wouldn't), then I could move further into PA or to MD, DE, or NJ to get representation. Like DC, SEPTA makes living in any of these areas easy to commute into Philly.
    This is supposed to be a democratic nation. You can't have the principles of representative democracy apply in SOME places and not others. It's ridiculous that our federal government throws its weight around so much trying to "spread democracy" to parts of the world where we have very little control over democratic development...yet it denies democracy to the one place in the world where it has TOTAL control.
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  3. #123
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Are there any other parts of the world where you think people don't deserve democracy because they can always leave? Cuba, maybe? China?
    This is just foolishness. Not being a state does not mean that there is a lack of democracy.

    Try cracking open a book sometime before you make such absurd comparisons.

  4. #124
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    This is just foolishness. Not being a state does not mean that there is a lack of democracy.
    In DC's case, it absolutely does. We are lorded over by a Congress we did not elect, which can veto for any reason (or no reason) any decision made by our elected city council. Furthermore, this dictatorship known as Congress forces us to obey these things called "federal laws" and forces us to pay these things called "federal taxes."

    In what world is this considered a democracy? There are plenty of dictatorships around the world where a nominally elected government is powerless in the face of an unelected body that ACTUALLY calls the shots.
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  5. #125
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    In DC's case, it absolutely does. We are lorded over by a Congress we did not elect, which can veto for any reason (or no reason) any decision made by our elected city council. Furthermore, this dictatorship known as Congress forces us to obey these things called "federal laws" and forces us to pay these things called "federal taxes."

    In what world is this considered a democracy? There are plenty of dictatorships around the world where a nominally elected government is powerless in the face of an unelected body that ACTUALLY calls the shots.
    So you do admit that you have a democracy, but you're just not happy with how it's working out for you. Got it.

  6. #126
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    So you do admit that you have a democracy, but you're just not happy with how it's working out for you. Got it.

    ...

    ...

    English must not be your first language if you can read my post and conclude that I said exactly the opposite of which I actually said. We are governed with absolute authority by an entity that we DID NOT ELECT and had no voice in electing. By no stretch of the imagination is that a democracy.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 07-06-11 at 10:21 PM.
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  7. #127
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post

    ...

    ...

    English must not be your first language if you can read my post and conclude that I said exactly the opposite of which I actually said. We are governed with absolute authority by an entity that we DID NOT ELECT and had no voice in electing. By no stretch of the imagination is that a democracy.
    Then move. It's your choice to stay on land that was from the very begining never meant to be a state.
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  8. #128
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Then move. It's your choice to stay on land
    So is it your position that anyone in the world who is capable of moving to a democracy does not deserve to have a democracy where they currently live?

    that was from the very begining never meant to be a state.
    I don't really give a damn what some dudes in wigs wanted 200 years ago. The residents of DC *today* are being ruled over by a dictatorship.
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  9. #129
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    So is it your position that anyone in the world who is capable of moving to a democracy does not deserve to have a democracy where they currently live?
    The world is not Washington DC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I don't really give a damn what some dudes in wigs wanted 200 years ago. The residents of DC *today* are being ruled over by a dictatorship.
    So? I don't really give a damn what you want either. So, where does that leave us? (see, I can ignore wants also, and no I didn't say it to be mean...just making a point.)

    Lets put it this way Kandahar, what would you tell me if I complained about not being able to get any grants for education in Idaho but someone in the same situation as me but was black could. But if I moved to Montana I would be eligible for a grant?
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  10. #130
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    The world is not Washington DC.
    So why do you make an exception for us, if you don't think that everyone ELSE in the world who can leave their place of residence deserves to live in a dictatorship?

    So? I don't really give a damn what you want either. So, where does that leave us? (see, I can ignore wants also, and no I didn't say it to be mean...just making a point.)

    Lets put it this way Kandahar, what would you tell me if I complained about not being able to get any grants for education in Idaho but someone in the same situation as me but was black could. But if I moved to Montana I would be eligible for a grant?
    I'd suggest you lobby your state government to change the law more to your liking, and/or assemble a coalition of voters to elect a new state government which will then change the law. Two things which you can do, but we DC residents cannot. At some point in the last 0-4 years, the voters of your state elected the government that set or preserved those education laws; we DC residents did not vote for a dictatorship.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 07-06-11 at 11:03 PM.
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