View Poll Results: New states?

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Thread: New states?

  1. #101
    Educator hallam's Avatar
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    Re: New states?

    Two other facts that support the "DC is a place people move for the FG" idea is that the Single population is about 66% more that 20% more than the national average. And people 18 to 44 make up near half of the population.

  2. #102
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    it is relevant since the reasons behind not making DC a state hold true still today.





    The average person with a Bachelor degree make up 47.1% of the population in DC. The national average is 27.5%. The average income in DC is 40K while the national average is 27K. This isn't a normal area with a normal distribution. People move to DC for government jobs and jobs to support the FG. It attracts people simple because the FG is there. I am not saying that their is not a nationally born DC'n but the majority of people move there for the FG. The Stats back up this fact. If you move there, then those people should know what they are getting into.



    All this quote means is that they need a local government which they already have.
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    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

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  3. #103
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    Re: New states?

    Alright, let's rehash.

    Even if everyone who lived in DC lived here purely because they moved here to work for the federal government, why shouldn't they be given fair representation in Congress if they pay taxes?

    I'm sorry but I'm still not buying the original argument that DC shouldn't have representation just because people work for the FG.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  4. #104
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Alright, let's rehash.

    Even if everyone who lived in DC lived here purely because they moved here to work for the federal government, why shouldn't they be given fair representation in Congress if they pay taxes?

    I'm sorry but I'm still not buying the original argument that DC shouldn't have representation just because people work for the FG.
    Because they make too much money! I hate those federal employees! Screw them, their families, and their benefits!

  5. #105
    Educator hallam's Avatar
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Straight out of your article:

    "In fact, many of those who move to Washington from elsewhere end up staying forever" This means they moved there and that means they should have known what they were getting into. I am the one who is arguing that the majority move into the city.

    "the net migration from the District was 45,000, on a pretty substantial amount of churn--113,000 people moved into the city, while 158,000 moved out." The net gain of Virgina in the next sentence is irrelevant since we are discussing DC only. The that people move around isn't the issue. The issue is that people are moving into and out of DC and those reasons are mainly because of the FG.

    "Forty percent of D.C. residents were born in this city. That's much lower than the portion in some states" again, this goes to show that more people moved there than were born there. Again, I am not saying that people aren't born there. I am saying that the majority moved there. This line alone proves my point. 60% is a majority.

    I might add; this is the greatest line to support your theory: "50 percent of D.C. residents were living in the same residence in 2000 as they had been in 1995" but if you think about it, this make sense since 1995 to 2000 are encompassed by one President and is mostly covered one term with only one major political shift in power. What is the change in 2001 when Bush came in? Further, I am not only talk about political jobs but of all jobs in DC including lobbying jobs, military jobs, and other support jobs.

    This article actually supports my position more than yours and doesn't even attempts to support the idea that DC is not a "No one from there" city.


    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Even if everyone who lived in DC lived here purely because they moved here to work for the federal government, why shouldn't they be given fair representation in Congress if they pay taxes?

    I'm sorry but I'm still not buying the original argument that DC shouldn't have representation just because people work for the FG.
    They are given fair representation in their home states. They shouldn't be given fair representation because DC was set up to be independent. That independence is of greater value than representation in one part of government.
    Last edited by hallam; 07-05-11 at 08:56 PM.

  6. #106
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: New states?

    Im welcome to any and all new states within reason. Now I admit I am unaware of what has to happen for an area to become a state but as long as those needs are met Im all for it.
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  7. #107
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I'm sorry but I'm still not buying the original argument that DC shouldn't have representation just because people work for the FG.
    I agree. Change the law. Give the taxpayers of D.C. their fair representation.

    This is truly an example of taxation without representation.

  8. #108
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    Straight out of your article:

    "In fact, many of those who move to Washington from elsewhere end up staying forever" This means they moved there and that means they should have known what they were getting into. I am the one who is arguing that the majority move into the city.

    .
    A lot of people move to New York, too. Should New York City have no Congressmen?

    Even if "a majority" move into Washington for the government, there is still the matter of those who were born there and live there with no connection to working for the government. Shouldn't these people have the same rights as everybody else?


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  9. #109
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    Re: New states?

    The D.C. Congressional Representatives do have the ability to vote on committees and sub-committees; they are represented in Congress.

    The question, it seems, is whether or not they're 'adequately' represented. I believe that should be left up to everyone's personal opinion. Let it go up to a vote in the Senate and if they can get their floor vote privileges, they can get them. Personally, I find it a bit tedious to argue that, literally, the writers of the Constitution created a violation of that document in that same document. I like to assume, as someone who does not have J.D., that those who wrote the Constitution were not so idiotic as they did not notice Article One, Section Eight.
    Last edited by HippoDance69; 07-05-11 at 10:16 PM.

  10. #110
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    Re: New states?

    I am largely ignorant about the overall health of the examples that you gave. I would not want a area that would be problematic to joins the United States simply because the people of that area wanted to. I believe if any states are added it needs to have a clear benefit to all involved.

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