View Poll Results: New states?

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Thread: New states?

  1. #91
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I did not know this:
    Washingtonians bitch about it a lot, and are sometimes justified in doing so.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  2. #92
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    No, I don't see people moving as more ridiculous because not everyone has a problem with losing these rights and not everyone who lives in DC feel as though they are DC'ns (?). The people in DC live there for many reasons most move there for federal positions, are staff to the federal government, or work for federally supporting business (e.g. restaurants, hotels, lobbying groups, NGO, Non-Profits, etc). Those who really feel that they are being slighted can move to Virgina, Maryland, WV, Delaware, PA or some other state and commute in. The transit system is pretty expansive in DC by the way.
    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    Because DC was specifically created to hold the US government on independent land. It is all federal land. If you were born there, sorry but the Federal government being independent is more important to the people of DC getting Congressional representation since there are alternatives. If you moved there, then you knew what you were getting into.

    I might add that if the roles were reversed and Philly was the nations capital on Federal land and created specifically to hold the Federal government outside of any States control, then the same rules would apply. I moved to Philly. I would have known that moving here would mean that I wouldn't get representation. If I had a significant issue with this (which I probably wouldn't), then I could move further into PA or to MD, DE, or NJ to get representation. Like DC, SEPTA makes living in any of these areas easy to commute into Philly.
    Dude...the vast majority of Washingtonians don't live in DC because they wanted to move here.

    Explain why they shouldn't have representation in Congress?
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  3. #93
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Dude...the vast majority of Washingtonians don't live in DC because they wanted to move here.

    Explain why they shouldn't have representation in Congress?
    I and others already have. There are a multitude of logistical and wasteful ways to have DC be a state which would give them duplicate representation for what amounts to the local government they already have. And adding DC as a state would defeat the whole reason with creating DC in the first place. Again a State is an entity by itself. It does represent people but it does more than that. To make DC a state would essentially allow the Federal Government to have a seat at the State table when the States are supposed to be separate than the FG. It is a conflict.

    Further, the vast majority of people in DC do move there for their profession. For those who have moved there, too bad. That is not to take away from those who were born there but the separation of powers supersedes these rights.
    Last edited by hallam; 07-05-11 at 07:22 PM.

  4. #94
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    I and others already have. There are a multitude of logistical and wasteful ways to have DC be a state which would give them duplicate representation for what amounts to the local government they already have. And adding DC as a state would defeat the whole reason with creating DC in the first place. Again a State is an entity by itself. It does represent people but it does more than that. To make DC a state would essentially allow the Federal Government to have a seat at the State table when the States are supposed to be separate than the FG. It is a conflict.
    I'm not asking for DC to be a state. I still believe that they should have some form or representation in Congress, whether they are a state or not.

    As for the Federal Government being represented as a state, that is completely inaccurate. DC is so much more than just the home of the Federal Government, and the interests of the CITY and its RESIDENTS and that of the Federal Government are often not at all aligned.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 07-05-11 at 07:22 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  5. #95
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I'm not asking for DC to be a state. I still believe that they should have some form or representation in Congress, whether they are a state or not.

    As for the Federal Government being represented as a state, that is completely inaccurate. DC is so much more than just the home of the Federal Government, and the interests of the CITY and that of the Federal Government are often not at all aligned.
    At its base, DC the city is the Federal Government. If these people feel that they need representation, then let them move to Virgina or Maryland.

  6. #96
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    At its base, DC the city is the Federal Government. If these people feel that they need representation, then let them move to Virgina or Maryland.
    No, it's really not. DC is basically one big hood, with a government district and some touristy areas attached.

    The majority of DC residents aren't DC residents because they moved here to work for the government. They are DC residents because they were BORN HERE.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  7. #97
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    No, it's really not. DC is basically one big hood, with a government district and some touristy areas attached.

    The majority of DC residents aren't DC residents because they moved here to work for the government. They are DC residents because they were BORN HERE.
    Yes it is. I wont deny the touristy stuff but DC was created solely to hold and support the Federal Government. It was created solely so that a place could be separated out and no state could try to control the FG. It was never designed to be a place where people actually live outside of their actual home states. People are supposed to go there as a representative of a state (or support staff) and then once finished go home to whatever state they came from.

    And no, there are some DC residents who were born there but the majority move there and know what they are getting into.

  8. #98
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    Yes it is. I wont deny the touristy stuff but DC was created solely to hold and support the Federal Government. It was created solely so that a place could be separated out and no state could try to control the FG. It was never designed to be a place where people actually live outside of their actual home states. People are supposed to go there as a representative of a state (or support staff) and then once finished go home to whatever state they came from.
    At this point in time, none of this is relevant when it comes to the fact that citizens of Washington, DC do not have fair representation.

    And no, there are some DC residents who were born there but the majority move there and know what they are getting into.
    You clearly don't know a whole lot about DC. Forgive me for being blunt.

    Anyway, regardless of all the above, THIS is the point I'm trying to drive home and I'll repeat it again.

    As for the Federal Government being represented as a state, that is completely inaccurate. DC is so much more than just the home of the Federal Government, and the interests of the CITY and its RESIDENTS and that of the Federal Government are often not at all aligned.
    DC has its own, thriving native resident population that is separate from the federal government bureaucracy that is located there.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 07-05-11 at 07:57 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  9. #99
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    Re: New states?

    No taxation without representation! Unless you live in DC, then we'll tax the living **** out of you and not give you a vote on it because you'll probably vote for a Democrat

    --Tea Party Platform (??)


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  10. #100
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    Re: New states?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    At this point in time, none of this is relevant when it comes to the fact that citizens of Washington, DC do not have fair representation.
    it is relevant since the reasons behind not making DC a state hold true still today.



    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    You clearly don't know a whole lot about DC. Forgive me for being blunt.

    Anyway, regardless of all the above, THIS is the point I'm trying to drive home and I'll repeat it again.
    The average person with a Bachelor degree make up 47.1% of the population in DC. The national average is 27.5%. The average income in DC is 40K while the national average is 27K. This isn't a normal area with a normal distribution. People move to DC for government jobs and jobs to support the FG. It attracts people simple because the FG is there. I am not saying that their is not a nationally born DC'n but the majority of people move there for the FG. The Stats back up this fact. If you move there, then those people should know what they are getting into.

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    DC has its own, thriving native resident population that is separate from the federal government bureaucracy that is located there.
    All this quote means is that they need a local government which they already have.

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