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Should states have the right to secede?

Secession from the USA


  • Total voters
    33
Passports to work at the Lexus dealership a mile outside Ohio?

Why not? Thousands of people cross borders to work in Europe every day, (especially in places like Gibraltar). Also how to those who oppose this reconcile their stance with principles like the consent of the governed etc?
 
Yes, I would have.

That is absolutely horrible, and unAmerican.

Has the south ever actually came to your side yet? The answer is a astounding no. The further you force them to do as you wish the further they get from their thoughts on their state and the further the separation becomes. One the things people forget is this is why state rights are so important. Without them states are forced to be do a great deal of things they have no desire to do and become unwilling members of the union.

The side we forced them to was the side against slavery. News flash: there isn't any more slavery. If you want a Confederacy, go to Europe.

The point of being American, and the point of the United States is that they are indivisable. Every aspect of our country is built upon that foundation. To say this is wrong is to insult everything this country stands for, and is as radical and incorrect as suicide bombings.
 
the Southern States did not seek the approval of the other states to secede.

maybe they would have received it. but no, they simply decided to declare independence and attack Fort Sumter without provocation.

nice.

And were crushed. Lesson: this house shall not be divided, whatever the cost may be.
 
So, could we be like Europe?
 
Didn't we settle this issue last century?

A court ruling that says members are forced to say in a union they willingly joined and were told they can leave means nothing.
 
That is absolutely horrible, and unAmerican.

No its American in fact. Its unAmerican to say you would force states to continue on without their approval and kill a great deal of their citizens to do it.


The side we forced them to was the side against slavery. News flash: there isn't any more slavery. If you want a Confederacy, go to Europe.

Would the blacks have been freed without the civil war? Yes.
Would the blacks got equal treatment faster without the civil war. Yes
Was the civil war about slaves. No.

And why would I go to Europe? The EU is no better than the US in terms of sovereignty of their members.

The point of being American, and the point of the United States is that they are indivisable. Every aspect of our country is built upon that foundation. To say this is wrong is to insult everything this country stands for, and is as radical and incorrect as suicide bombings.

The entire point of the country is a union of states(countries) that can run their states as they wish and where the federal government acts to protect them from outside threats.
 
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And were crushed. Lesson: this house shall not be divided, whatever the cost may be.

So you have no problem with the shear amount that died to get you little point across that they have to be a member even if they don't want to be anymore?
 
No its American in fact. Its unAmerican to say you would force states to continue on without their approval and kill a great deal of their citizens to do it.

By that logic, a good deal of the Founding Fathers, along with Abraham Lincoln were all unAmerican. I can tell you without a doubt, Washington, Adams, Madison, etc. would have done the same in Lincoln's position, and that really defines what it means to be American. Unless you want to now tell me the FF's weren't real Americans.


Would the blacks have been freed without the civil war? Yes.
Would the blacks got equal treatment faster without the civil war. Yes
Was the civil war about slaves. No.

1. Wrong. 2. Wrong. 3. It was about the same thing we're talking about right now. And history is on my side, not yours. The Union won the war, not the Confederacy.

And why would I go to Europe? The EU is no better than the US in terms of sovereignty of their members.

They're a heck of a lot more decentralized. They are akin to what we had before the Constitution, and they have the same problems. Even then, they all know they have to stick together. You think Germany wants to bailout Greece? Hell no, but they do it anyway, because they'd rather forfeit their complete independence for some mutual security/benefits.

The entire point of the country is a union of states(countries) that can run their states as they wish and where the federal government acts to protect them from outside threats.

Not this Union.
 
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So you have no problem with the shear amount that died to get you little point across that they have to be a member even if they don't want to be anymore?

Just because you still don't understand the point doesn't mean it wasn't delivered, and understood.

You do realize, if things worked out the way you would have had them, the United States probably would never have been created? All the compromises made to bring us together, all the deals and conventions held for the greater good, would not have been held or even considered if the FF's were as narrow-minded and absolute as you are. Amazing, more than 600,000 lives, hundreds of years, and countless Amendments, and people still cling to their dead beliefs.
 
No its American in fact. Its unAmerican to say you would force states to continue on without their approval and kill a great deal of their citizens to do it.

and how do we know the population of a state wants to secede?

what percent of the voters have to vote "yes" on the referendum?

51%? that negates the views of 49% of the state's population.

seceding from the Union, because 51% of the people who show up to vote say "yes", IS tryanny.
 
The Civil War...:doh

No, the court ruling that said it was unconstitutional to secede came some four years after the civil war. The ruling has no bearing on the civil war.
 
No, the court ruling that said it was unconstitutional to secede came some four years after the civil war. The ruling has no bearing on the civil war.

Hatuey wasn't referring to any court ruling. He was referring to the outcome of the Civil War. If a state (or a group of states) try to secede, then they will be forcibly readmitted to the Union, with heavy consequences. That effectively settled this issue. Anything thereafter was a formality, and superfluous. 600,000 dead speak for themselves.
 
Just because you still don't understand the point doesn't mean it wasn't delivered, and understood.

You do realize, if things worked out the way you would have had them, the United States probably would never have been created? All the compromises made to bring us together, all the deals and conventions held for the greater good, would not have been held or even considered if the FF's were as narrow-minded and absolute as you are. Amazing, more than 600,000 lives, hundreds of years, and countless Amendments, and people still cling to their dead beliefs.

The founders formed this country on the backs of willing members that joined because it was in their interest to do so. They figured they were be stronger together than apart but wanted assurance that their states would have the great powers and the federal government would be limited.

As for you saying I'm narrow-minded you have no basis for this statement and its meaningless besides.
 
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Hatuey wasn't referring to any court ruling. He was referring to the outcome of the Civil War. If a state (or a group of states) try to secede, then they will be forcibly readmitted to the Union, with heavy consequences. That effectively settled this issue. Anything thereafter was a formality, and superfluous. 600,000 dead speak for themselves.

The court ruling that came some four years after made it impossible for it happen again.
 
By that logic, a good deal of the Founding Fathers, along with Abraham Lincoln were all unAmerican. I can tell you without a doubt, Washington, Adams, Madison, etc. would have done the same in Lincoln's position, and that really defines what it means to be American. Unless you want to now tell me the FF's weren't real Americans.

I am well versed in what the founders thought on the issue and well versed in what they promised the states among joining. What happened in the civil war was not the promise.


1. Wrong. 2. Wrong. 3. It was about the same thing we're talking about right now. And history is on my side, not yours. The Union won the war, not the Confederacy.

Who won means nothing and I can't do anything with a simple wrong answer.


They're a heck of a lot more decentralized. They are akin to what we had before the Constitution, and they have the same problems. Even then, they all know they have to stick together. You think Germany wants to bailout Greece? Hell no, but they do it anyway, because they'd rather forfeit their complete independence for some mutual security/benefits.

If you say so.

Not this Union.

Yes, I described this union.
 
The purpose and functionality of 'States' Rights' disappeared with the advent of railroads and the telegraph. Its only purpose afterwards was to facilitate corruption and support numerous little fiefdoms and organized crime syndicates based in state Houses and capitals. It's constantly blathered about and supported even today for exactly the same reasons and motivations.

No good came of it and never will.
 
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Secession is a terrific idea if you want to destroy the USA.
 
IMO, the States have to much power to begin with. The American constitution needs badly to be amended and updated.
 
Secession is a terrific idea if you want to destroy the USA.

That's pretty much the basis of its wild popularity with lunatics and sociopaths.
 
That's pretty much the basis of its wild popularity with lunatics and sociopaths.

States would be at a great disadvantage if they left the union, its not something that comes easy. Everyone wants this to work out, and the states would do everything in their power to make it work, but sometimes relationships end and that is just part of life.
 
The purpose and functionality of 'States' Rights' disappeared with the advent of railroads and the telegraph. Its only purpose afterwards was to facilitate corruption and support numerous little fiefdoms and organized crime syndicates based in state Houses and capitals. It's constantly blathered about and supported even today for exactly the same reasons and motivations.

No good came of it and never will.

Wow, that fun to read. You have a blog or something?
 
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