View Poll Results: Secession from the USA

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  • States should be able to take a vote and secede if they wish

    23 53.49%
  • Secession should not be an option

    11 25.58%
  • With qualifiers (those being)

    5 11.63%
  • Other

    4 9.30%
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Thread: Should states have the right to secede?

  1. #91
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    Re: Should states have the right to secede?

    The political theorist and idealist in me says, the states should absolutely have the right to secede. Self determination is considered a basic fundemental right by most people in the West. Our own nation is based on the concept that the consent of the governed in crucial to the legitimacy of any government.

    However, the realist in me recognizes that those rights are only applied by groups with suffcient military power to defend those rights from the government they seek to secede from or have allies/benefactors who will use their military might to defend that right. Allowing the South to secede, while it may have satisfied some theoretical purist view on the right of self determination, would've been disasterous for this country. The Federal government, which is charged with looking after the best interests of the nation, was correct to refuse to allow secession and put an end to it by force of arms.
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  2. #92
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    Re: Should states have the right to secede?

    Yes, definitely. And it's inevitable at some point.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  3. #93
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    Re: Should states have the right to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    suggesting that we were seperate nations, part of a larger nation, is silly and simply incorrect.

    did the States have the power to sign treaties? did they have the power to print currency?

    did they have the power to set foreign policy?

    did they have the power to limit travel from neighboring states?

    did they have a foreign minister? did they have the power to set immigration policy?

    what normal powers of a soveriegn nation, did the states have?

    none? thought not.
    The individual colonies issued their own currency before and during the Revolutionary War. They also each individually declared war on England. So they did at one time have soverieng control of currency and foreign affairs. National immigration policy was simply unheard of that time, so it's not even a point woth bringing up. The US didn't have a real federal immigration restrictions until the mid 19th century.

    The Articles of the Confederation, which were not ratified until 1781, says "Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated." Which clearly states the states were soverign entities entering into a "perpetual Union". The states were clearly sovereign entities who volunatarily entered into a union and gave up portions of their soveriegnty in doing so, but with the understanding that the remainder of their soverignty would be preserved and respected.
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  4. #94
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    Re: Should states have the right to secede?

    The Articles of Confederation died when the Constitution was ratified.
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    Re: Should states have the right to secede?

    Some of the general hilarity in this thread reminded me of this story from the Onion ...

    South Postpones Rising Again For Yet Another Year | The Onion - America's Finest News Source


    My favorite paragraphs:

    The Deep South states of Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, South Carolina, Louisiana, and Tennessee consistently rank at the bottom of the nation in a wide variety of statistical categories, including literacy, infant mortality, hospital beds, toilet-paper sales, and shoe usage. Even so, some experts believe the region could be poised for a renaissance.

    "The way things stand, things in the Deep South almost have to get better. Otherwise, the people who live there will devolve into preverbal, overall-wearing sub-morons within a century," said Professor Dennis Lassiter of Princeton University. "Either Southerners will start improving themselves, or they'll be sold to middle-class Asians as pets."
    lolz

    As for the West, where this 'secession' nonsense is equally popular, it's worth noting that most of the West would still be uninhabitable without massive Federal subsidies, even today. LA and southern California is essentially a giant gravel pit, and Imperial Valley is a dust pile without Hoover Dam and massive water projects that steal water from Colorado and other states. Same for most of Texas and the Plains states.

    Ironic, isn't it ...

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    Re: Should states have the right to secede?

    Yes, I'm well aware of that, but the AoC were around before the Constitution and they clearly indicate the states were sovereign entities who voluntarily formed a union. Thunder was trying to suggest the states were never soveriegn and that is clearly not true. If the AoC states the states retained their soveriegnty while joining the union, then clearly they had to be considered sovereign before joining the union.
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    Re: Should states have the right to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown View Post
    Yes, I'm well aware of that, but the AoC were around before the Constitution and they clearly indicate the states were sovereign entities who voluntarily formed a union. Thunder was trying to suggest the states were never soveriegn and that is clearly not true. If the AoC states the states retained their soveriegnty while joining the union, then clearly they had to be considered sovereign before joining the union.
    True, but it doesn't matter now.
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    Re: Should states have the right to secede?

    Any state that secedes will be literally burned to the ground. -Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
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  9. #99
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    Re: Should states have the right to secede?

    I would say that north, south, east, and west, within the CONUS then no...there should be no secession (a divided country within a country is just silly). I think we should boot the territories and call Hawaii's bluff. We dont need them strategically and thats the only reason why they are territories in the first place.

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    Re: Should states have the right to secede?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown View Post
    The individual colonies issued their own currency before and during the Revolutionary War.
    that ALL ended when the Constitution was ratified.

    as did any appearance of state "soveriegnity".

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