View Poll Results: Understanding and compassion are:

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  • Not necessary. Everybody who is poor is failing at life.

    21 42.00%
  • Essential to mental health

    12 24.00%
  • Signs of weakness

    8 16.00%
  • Dumbass question, if you ask me. Natural Selection Works. So do loopholes.

    9 18.00%
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Thread: Understanding and compassion are anathema

  1. #11
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    Re: Understanding and compassion are anathema

    IMHO, this would make more sense if there were a bit more context.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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  2. #12
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    Re: Understanding and compassion are anathema

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    IMHO, this would make more sense if there were a bit more context.
    You mean for the poll? I'm talking about the number of people on this forum in the past month or so who've gone full-on "any bad thing that happens to you is your own damn fault, you should have been more prepared" combined with "And anything the rich HAVE they EARNED and you're a PARASITE if you don't AGREE WITH ME."

    Better?

  3. #13
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    Re: Understanding and compassion are anathema

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    You mean for the poll? I'm talking about the number of people on this forum in the past month or so who've gone full-on "any bad thing that happens to you is your own damn fault, you should have been more prepared" combined with "And anything the rich HAVE they EARNED and you're a PARASITE if you don't AGREE WITH ME."

    Better?

    Yup. I just wanted to know where you were coming from.


    To expand on the point: A lot of bad things that happen to people are, to some degree, self-inflicted. Most of my problems are, one way or another, I freely admit.

    However, it isn't always so. Some people are poor because they put family obligations ahead of maximizing their income; some are poor because of health problems they did nothing to bring on themselves. Accidents happen; you could get laid off, be unable to afford to COBRA your insurance, then get in a car wreck the next week.... the hospital costs could wipe you out even if you were otherwise financially well-off.

    In short, most people bring most of their **** down on their own heads, but not always. If there's one thing I've learned in life, it is that there's plenty of trouble to go 'round... if you don't have any right now, fear not: it will get around to you. You can do everything "right" and life can still throw you a monkey wrench. It happens.

    I have all the sympathy in the world for people with non-self-inflicted problems. I can even sympathize and have compassion on people who made a decision that turned out to be "bad", but was something that didn't seem unreasonable at the time.

    I tend to get impatient, though, with people who refuse to take responsibility for the troubles they brought on themselves, or who think others OWE them something "just because".
    Last edited by Goshin; 07-03-11 at 08:38 PM.

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  4. #14
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    Re: Understanding and compassion are anathema

    This is a mess up poll. I'm all for helping people, but I'm against social programs. I also believe many people do **** up their lives and then cry about it relating their mistakes to a condition of being poor when its actually a condition of being a dumbass.

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    Re: Understanding and compassion are anathema

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I tend to get impatient, though, with people who refuse to take responsibility for the troubles they brought on themselves, or who think others OWE them something "just because".
    And that's what I take issue with. It's shaming enough to lose your job, to know that you maybe could have 'done more' or 'tried harder'. Good people beat themselves up all the damn time. They don't need a Greek chorus of society singing backup. They really don't.

  6. #16
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    Re: Understanding and compassion are anathema

    Compassion and understanding is essential for being an individual human being, but the government ought to be completely neutral.

  7. #17
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    Re: Understanding and compassion are anathema

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    Compassion and understanding is essential for being an individual human being, but the government ought to be completely neutral.
    The government is comprised of humans. Humans who are passionate about their beliefs.

    If only they were Klingons.

  8. #18
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    Re: Understanding and compassion are anathema

    The troubles they brought on themselves...

    Social programs suck. Of course they suck. We can't fully control what sorts of human beings use them. They're expensive.

    But they do 2 things.
    1. Help people that everyone can agree did nothing to bring on their hardship.
    2. Buy us time, as a society, to figure out how to deal with people who need another kind of help.

    What I mean by #2 is that a lot of people that someone sneers at as being "entitled" because they make stupid decisions actually isn't aware of an alternative way. They grew up this way, this is what they know, this is how they do it. They may not really get that they can change their approach, or that their current approach is causing them problems.

    They may need more help to get away from their stupid decision-making if they are addicts. And if you think addicts are just "stupid" then I bet you haven't ever had to spend any time around someone withdrawing. It's like someone else has possessed their body and the 2 are fighting for control inside their skin.

    Maybe they have an untreated mental illness - a fairly common thing, I suspect. Chiding the mentally ill for being irrational is almost laughably ridiculous, and yet we never seem to pick up on it... even when they plan to show up at a Safeway a couple blocks from where I used to work and shoot until they run out of bullets. Even then, we have dulled our empathetic sense so much that we don't notice.

    For every real "lazy asshole" on entitlements, there are a dozen people like one of the above. They're just harder to understand than the person who got struck by lightening. It's harder to understand from whence their problem came.

    Social programs, in addition to helping the blameless unfortunate, also buy us time to get our **** together and figure out that these kinds of people need other kinds of help. We're still so stuck on the question of "should we throw them in the ring with a pack of dogs or not?" that we aren't working on better ways of dealing with them. And there are better ways. Each of those cases of people who now wind up on entitlements could be dealt with better.

    But it isn't. Because we, the so-called responsible, can't get our act together, and can't bring ourselves to feel any tinge of compassion for other human beings. We don't want to understand. We just want to hate them and assume they're bad people. We want to assume they're just manipulating us. As we hoard our berries in a corner like the apes we still are, we point fingers at the "witch" of modern times, so convinced that we understand what they are. And yet we miss the obvious.

    They're just people. And a lot of them are good people who are kinda messed up and need some help in some form. It just takes a little more mental effort to see it.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 07-04-11 at 12:19 AM.

  9. #19
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    Re: Understanding and compassion are anathema

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    Points to be deducted if you had to hit a dictionary just now.
    Necessary for mental health and also for a unified society.

  10. #20
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    Re: Understanding and compassion are anathema

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post

    They're just people. And a lot of them are good people who are kinda messed up and need some help in some form. It just takes a little more mental effort to see it.
    Exactly. Right before you said it, I got what was coming; i.e., I had the light bulb moment right before I read your point. It goes directly to my point, which I sort of lost sight of for awhile, but it's the old "What makes you okay? Is it being right? Having the last word? Having more money? Being more "normal"? People put people down because it gives them a false sense of superiority. THAT'S what I've been reacting to the past few weeks.

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