View Poll Results: Where do you land?

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  • I am wealthy, and favor tax hikes for the wealthy

    9 10.34%
  • I am not wealthy, and favor tax hikes for the wealthy

    32 36.78%
  • I am wealthy, and against tax hikes for the wealthy

    0 0%
  • I am not wealthy, and against tax hikes for the wealthy

    34 39.08%
  • Other

    12 13.79%
  • Unsure

    0 0%
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Thread: Where do you land

  1. #111
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    Re: Where do you land

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    Let me just take a stab at the zealous federalism point for a second. Regardless of what we believe in personally, shouldn't states be more diverse in everything from their political and judicial structures all the way to their social culture? Please don't distort this statement by stretching it and claiming I support anarchy and a weak unity of states. Instead, when balancing the needs for state freedom and the need for national unity, I still weigh more body weight towards the state's rights (as does the constitution) because the opposite would be a prosaic and repetitive society based on strict, draconian laws that supersede the free rights of individuals. But I suppose individual freedom might be a little farther down on your list.
    Actually, extreme states rights is not Federalism. Historically, the people that were against the Constitution because it took away states' rights were Anti-Federalist. That's a legitimate point of view, but don't misname it. No state law can supersede the Constitution.

    "One Nation under God." Not 50.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  2. #112
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    Re: Where do you land

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    this is not really accurate. the notion that blacks could be considered a scientifically inferior race was developed later, in the 19th Century. some of the Founders owned slaves, but they weren't racist in the sense of American Racism that we remember from history.
    Racism as a social construct came about because the worst nightmare of the elite in the South was that poor whites would realize that they had more in common with slaves and join with them in a rebellion. Therefore, they promulgated the idea that blacks were inferior to whites, because it made the poor white servants think they were better than the slaves.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  3. #113
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    Re: Where do you land

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    this is not really accurate. the notion that blacks could be considered a scientifically inferior race was developed later, in the 19th Century. some of the Founders owned slaves, but they weren't racist in the sense of American Racism that we remember from history.
    You are again straw manning my comments. I never said the founders were racist. I would not consider the belief that blacks were an inferior race, THEN, as being racism, because it was the prevailing theory at the time. And it is certainly accurate that people in that era believed that blacks were inferior to whites.

    those are not Progressive Ideology; they merely formed the claims for Progressive ideology. the Founders had a much more confined picture of federal strength (the powers were 'few and defined': progressives wanted a state that was all-powerful)
    I always love it when conservatives try to tell me, a progressive, what progressive ideology is. They always get it wrong... as you did. Everything I said are the tenets of progressive ideology. Have been since TR.

    that is precisely what the Fascists pushed as well. a Third Way based on pragmatism and so forth.
    Which is pretty irrelevant and not logical. Fascist push science, so anyone who pushes science is a fascist? Like I said. No logic behind that.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #114
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    Re: Where do you land

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    You are again straw manning my comments. I never said the founders were racist. I would not consider the belief that blacks were an inferior race, THEN, as being racism, because it was the prevailing theory at the time. And it is certainly accurate that people in that era believed that blacks were inferior to whites.



    I always love it when conservatives try to tell me, a progressive, what progressive ideology is. They always get it wrong... as you did. Everything I said are the tenets of progressive ideology. Have been since TR.



    Which is pretty irrelevant and not logical. Fascist push science, so anyone who pushes science is a fascist? Like I said. No logic behind that.
    I disagree. Racism is racism wherever, and whenever, it occurs. Just because racism was the norm back then doesn't make it "not racism." I mean, hell, even Abe Lincoln was a racist.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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  5. #115
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    Re: Where do you land

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I disagree. Racism is racism wherever, and whenever, it occurs. Just because racism was the norm back then doesn't make it "not racism." I mean, hell, even Abe Lincoln was a racist.
    By modern standards, sure. But standards change and just because we think one thing today doesn't make what we think necessarily true. Next year, we might think something different, is it fair to apply the future standards to you today?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  6. #116
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    Re: Where do you land

    ****. I voted for the wrong one. I meant to vote for "I am not wealthy and favor tax hikes for the rich"


  7. #117
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    Re: Where do you land

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    National unity wins out over states rights. Ultimately, we are not at nation of little fiefdoms. We are a unified nation who's dealings with the rest of the world occurs together. Your opinion that this creates strict, draconian laws is ridiculous. The laws would be unified, but beyond that, they would be what they would be.

    As far as individual rights go, they are certainly high on the list. But I imagine that we think of rights in very different ways.
    I never said federal law should not trump state law, but I do believe the federal government should be strictly limited to the role set forth in the constitution. ANYTHING that is not explicitely defined in the constitution as a federal responsibility is ultimately up to the interpretation of state governments. Hence, Amendment IX and X of the Bill of Rights.

    And I never would have guessed that someone who believed people are generally too stupid to govern themselves would actually care about individual rights.

  8. #118
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    Re: Where do you land

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Actually, extreme states rights is not Federalism. Historically, the people that were against the Constitution because it took away states' rights were Anti-Federalist. That's a legitimate point of view, but don't misname it. No state law can supersede the Constitution.

    "One Nation under God." Not 50.
    I never said anything about "extreme states rights." I actually referred to the zealous federalism of Captain Courtesy which is a prevalent idea among progressives. I'm not an anti-Federalist, but I do strongly believe that the constitution, as it was originally intended, extremely limits the role of the federal government. It also unifies the states, which I support. But anything not explicitely mentioned in the constitution as a federal responsibility is a matter best left up to the states. No state law can supersede the constitution, but the ninth and tenth amendment of the Bill of Rights gives the states an enormous amount of freedom. Probably more freedom than you're willing to tolerate.

  9. #119
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    Re: Where do you land

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I disagree. Racism is racism wherever, and whenever, it occurs. Just because racism was the norm back then doesn't make it "not racism." I mean, hell, even Abe Lincoln was a racist.
    Cephus is right. Context means everything. Looking back, to us, today, it was racism, but it would not have been classified as such to folks back then.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #120
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    Re: Where do you land

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    I never said federal law should not trump state law, but I do believe the federal government should be strictly limited to the role set forth in the constitution. ANYTHING that is not explicitely defined in the constitution as a federal responsibility is ultimately up to the interpretation of state governments. Hence, Amendment IX and X of the Bill of Rights.
    And the framers of the Constitution, Madison and especially Hamilton recognized that not EVERYTHING could be put in that document. And, Hamilton especially, saw the US as needing a strong central government, more powerful than the states. I agree with this.

    And I never would have guessed that someone who believed people are generally too stupid to govern themselves would actually care about individual rights.
    It is REALLY a good idea that you do not do this. REALLY a good idea.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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