View Poll Results: Which obligations should the US stop paying in August?

Voters
41. You may not vote on this poll
  • Stop paying our debts

    17 41.46%
  • Stop paying our defense expenditures

    9 21.95%
  • Stop sending out social security checks

    14 34.15%
  • Stop paying Medicare/Medicaid

    21 51.22%
  • Stop paying everything not covered in one of the above categories

    5 12.20%
  • Print more money to pay for everything above

    1 2.44%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 40

Thread: Which obligations should the US stop paying in August?

  1. #21
    Guru

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:27 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,469

    Re: Which obligations should the US stop paying in August?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    That won't work, because even if the US continues to pay its creditors they'll obviously notice that we are failing to make good on our obligations. Just like your mortgage interest rate will go up if you stop paying your credit card bill...even if you continue to pay your mortgage on time.



    What do you mean "if possible"? What is the alternative?
    Why is that unless you have an adjustable and anyone with an adjustable is too stupid to live.

    .

  2. #22
    Global Moderator
    The Hammer of Chaos
    Goshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dixie
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,190

    Re: Which obligations should the US stop paying in August?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    You may not agree, but I'd also put a 20% across the board cut on the DoD and remove troops from Libya (NATO included) and Iraq - 100% of the troops, as well as close down in 2 years 20% of all foreign bases of operations in allied countries.

    Actually, despite being somewhat of a "hawk", I mostly agree with you. DoD needs to be "big and bad" but they could stand to be "leaner and meaner".

    The only foreign bases I'd keep open are those with SERIOUS strategic/tactical importance.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  3. #23
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Which obligations should the US stop paying in August?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Oh, not at all. This has me chortling and rubbing my hands together. I'll take that job.
    Great. Let's see what we can do.

    1. Stop all foreign aid payments
    If we're talking military AND economic aid, that will save $55.2 billion per year.

    2. Stop pay on all arts endowments.
    I couldn't find a line item for this on the federal budget, but according to the National Endowment for the Arts, the federal government chips in about $1.6 billion per year for the arts. That includes things like the Smithsonian Institute, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, and various public museums/libraries around the country. OK, so we'll shut the doors on all those things and call it $1.6 billion.

    3. Stop pay on all science endowments not related to national security
    There are a couple things on the federal government's income statement that might apply here. If we eliminate all funding for "basic research," we'll save $18.7 billion. If we pull the plug on federally-funded health R&D, we'll save another $36.1 billion. And we can shut down NASA to save $18.7 billion.

    There may be a few other places in the budget where the government sneaks in science funding, but those are the main ones as far as I can tell.

    4. Shut down the BATFE, except for the NICS.
    Their annual budget is $1.1 billion. I'm not sure how much of that budget goes toward the NICS, but my hunch is not very much. So let's just call it $1.1 billion.

    5. Close down the DEA and the Fed Ed Board.
    The DEA itself costs $2.4 billion, but we can save another $45.5 billion if we're talking about ending the war on drugs entirely.

    I'm not sure what the Fed Ed Board is, so I couldn't find the cost for that one. But the entire Department of Education spends about $71 billion...if you're willing to stop funding schools with only a few weeks' notice, before the states have time to adjust their budgets accordingly and just as the school year begins.

    6. Take a look at all those "duplicate agencies" assigned to the same problem... and shut all but one-per-category down.
    According to the statistics that jamesrage posted earlier, that will save about $20 billion per year. Although it's doubtful that those agencies could be identified and consolidated by the end of this month, in the event that the debt ceiling isn't raised.

    7. Stop paying Bush's Senior Drug program.... it never was very good to start with.
    Medicare Part D nets you another $49.3 billion, if you're truly willing to suddenly take away life-saving medications from people who have come to rely on them with only a few weeks' notice.

    8. Find all social programs that have produced zero results and shut them down.
    Too vague, and unlikely that this could be accomplished in the next 4 weeks in any case.

    then we can start cutting back on Welfare and Medicaide as necessary, starting with those who are NOT disabled....
    Let's start with Medicaid, because that's easier to figure out. Only 14% of Medicaid spending goes to working-age adults who are not considered disabled. That works out to $28.6 billion if we cut them all off immediately.

    Welfare is difficult to measure, because there is no such federal program as "welfare." There are many different anti-poverty programs, including unemployment insurance, subsidized housing, food stamps, the Earned Income Tax Credit, worker's compensation, subsidies for children's nutrition, etc. Let me know which ones you're talking about and I'll include those in the total.


    By my calculations, a generous reading of your proposed cuts (including some things that I'm not sure you were actually suggesting we eliminate) would save the government $348.2 billion per year...or roughly 9.1% of the federal budget. That's better than James did, but unfortunately you need to cut 33% if the debt ceiling isn't raised by the end of the month. Keep going.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 07-02-11 at 09:46 PM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  4. #24
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Which obligations should the US stop paying in August?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Oh, and here are some numbers. If the debt ceiling isn't raised, we'll have to suddenly eliminate approximately one-third (33%) of our spending. So please don't say anything retarded like "We'll just cut foreign aid, welfare, and pork-barrel spending. Problem solved."

    Medicare/Medicaid: 18% of our budget
    Defense: 16%
    Social security: 16%
    Debt payment: 5% (Although this will surely increase if we default or otherwise fail to meet our obligations, because our interest rates will increase and at least some of our debt will not be rolled over.)
    Everything else: 45%
    EDIT: Actually it's even bleaker than that. I mistakenly used the data for OVERALL government spending instead of FEDERAL government spending for the percentages above. The actual numbers are:

    Defense: 25%
    Medicare/Medicaid: 23%
    Social security: 21%
    Debt payment: 5% (Although this will surely increase if we default or otherwise fail to meet our obligations, because our interest rates will increase and at least some of our debt will not be rolled over.)
    Everything else: 26%

    So in the event that the debt ceiling isn't raised by the end of the month, even eliminating the ENTIRE non-defense discretionary budget would be insufficient to meet our obligations.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 07-02-11 at 09:56 PM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  5. #25
    Educator Jucon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    USA
    Last Seen
    04-22-14 @ 07:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    787

    Re: Which obligations should the US stop paying in August?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Same question to you: I don't disagree with any of this...but are you suggesting we raise the retirement age a lot higher within the next month, effective immediately? If not, it has no relevance to the subject at hand, which is the imminent debt ceiling debate and the enormous spending cuts that will result if it isn't raised by the end of the month.
    Increasing the retirement age by three months starting immediately is not "a lot" in my mind. But yes, I do believe they should increase the retirement age immediately. What is three months? If you can't postpone your retirement by three months I sure hope you have a good excuse.
    "There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, it to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution." óJohn Adams

  6. #26
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Which obligations should the US stop paying in August?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jucon View Post
    Increasing the retirement age by three months starting immediately is not "a lot" in my mind. But yes, I do believe they should increase the retirement age immediately. What is three months? If you can't postpone your retirement by three months I sure hope you have a good excuse.
    At this point a good excuse would be "I already put in my two weeks' notice." Gradually raising the retirement age is a good idea; doing it suddenly without any advance warning whatsoever is not. In any case, it would provide only marginal savings in the face of the immediate 33% spending cut that will be necessary if the government does not raise the debt ceiling, because the only immediate savings would come from people who would've enrolled in August and now have to wait until November. I don't know how many people that is, but it can't possibly be a very big chunk of social security's total expenditures.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  7. #27
    Civil Libertarian
    DashingAmerican's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Alabama
    Last Seen
    08-31-17 @ 05:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    3,357

    Re: Which obligations should the US stop paying in August?

    Move the retirement age up 5 years. That will help, for sure. Cut foregin aid, especially to countries with corrupt governments. Bring the armed forces home.
    If you strike me down, I'll become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

  8. #28
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Goldsboro,PA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    5,596
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Which obligations should the US stop paying in August?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Salaries of all federally paid people

    From the President down to a private in the army
    A worthy idea, to an extent.
    An Army private is in the near poverty area...
    The President ?
    IMO, those with incomes over 100K dollars per annum must face a tax hike, they can afford this.
    With "brinkmanship" in mind, I think all of Congress should keep their heads down - in shame....

  9. #29
    Student SPC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Missouri
    Last Seen
    10-02-11 @ 06:20 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    215

    Re: Which obligations should the US stop paying in August?

    It's pretty apparent this is a biased poll. What they need to do is cut off funding to Planned Parenthood, NPR and Media Matters, then they need to eliminate the Departments of Labor, Education, and Energy. And that's just a start.

  10. #30
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Which obligations should the US stop paying in August?

    Quote Originally Posted by SPC View Post
    It's pretty apparent this is a biased poll.

    Sorry that you consider the financial reality to be biased. If Congress does not raise the debt ceiling, our government will have insufficient revenue to cover its expenditures next month, and will have to immediately slash government spending by 33%.

    What they need to do is cut off funding to Planned Parenthood, NPR and Media Matters, then they need to eliminate the Departments of Labor, Education, and Energy. And that's just a start.
    You're right it's just a start. In fact, it's so completely inadequate for the shortfall we'd face without a debt ceiling increase, that it barely even qualifies as a "start." Let's see where your cuts get us:

    Planned Parenthood: $0.4 billion per year
    NPR: $0.1 billion
    Media Matters: $0 (As far as I can tell this receives no federal funding whatsoever. If it does, it's nothing more than a rounding error.)
    Department of Labor: $104.5 billion
    Department of Education: $71.0 billion (That is, if you're truly willing to eliminate ALL the funding for this in the next 4 weeks before the states have time to plan their own education budgets accordingly.)
    Department of Energy: $24.1 billion


    In total, you've managed to cut $200.1 billion from the federal budget...or 5.2% of expenditures. If you're opposed to raising the debt ceiling, you need to find another 28.1% to cut. (Hint: Eliminating the entire non-defense discretionary budget still won't get you there.)
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •