View Poll Results: Is Citizen's United et al ruling compatible with democracy?

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Thread: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

  1. #31
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    You're making value judgments on whose voice should be heard.
    Clearly that's not democratic.
    I'm doing nothing of the sort. I never said that some people should be able to buy ads and others should not. In fact, all I stated was that full disclosure laws are warranted to prevent, or at least track and then prevent in the future, most vote buying. I haven't even stated what my actual qualms with the current system are.

    To be clear, citizen united wasn't just a boon to corps, it was a boon to anyone with a lot of money, clout, or any large group Unions, Corps, Church Group, Universities, PACs, etc
    Last edited by xpiher; 07-02-11 at 04:00 AM.
    Hayek - too liberal for republicans

  2. #32
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    I'm doing nothing of the sort. I never said that some people should be able to buy ads and others should not. In fact, all I stated was that full disclosure laws are warranted to prevent, or at least track and then prevent in the future, most vote buying. I haven't even stated what my actual qualms with the current system are.

    To be clear, citizen united wasn't just a boon to corps, it was a boon to anyone with a lot of money, clout, or any large group Unions, Corps, Church Group, Universities, PACs, etc
    Cool then we understand each other.
    My bad for making the presumption.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    You're making value judgments on whose voice should be heard.
    Clearly that's not democratic.

    Do you think non profits, unions and other lobbying organizations are motivated simply by good things but corporations are only interested in bad?

    Many of you guys say that it's these corporate entities are spreading deceptive information.
    When the truth is that there are many organizations all motivated by the want to marginalize their competition and to boost their favored groups.
    It isn't corporations vs. "the people."

    It's "the people" vs. "the people."
    Well, I think its some people vs. most people. And some of those some people are "corporate" persons.

    I've just chosen to go with trying to inform as many as possible how they are being decieved. That way its harder to do. If enough people become aware of these methods their use should be reduced by being rendered useless.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  4. #34
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Well, I think its some people vs. most people. And some of those some people are "corporate" persons.

    I've just chosen to go with trying to inform as many as possible how they are being decieved. That way its harder to do. If enough people become aware of these methods their use should be reduced by being rendered useless.
    Anyone with a retirement account is part of those "corporate" persons.

    Deception is easy to see, if you understand that it doesn't end with the popularly "evil" people.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Anyone with a retirement account is part of those "corporate" persons.

    Deception is easy to see, if you understand that it doesn't end with the popularly "evil" people.
    If you invest in company, do you get to tell them not to use your money to lobby congress or how to lobby congress? Not unless you have enough shares to have a vote. This is why people like Jesse Jackson have investment groups that collect enough money to invest in companies to have voting shares.
    Hayek - too liberal for republicans

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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Yes, because I'm not aware of any reason that it isn't compatible with democracy.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Unless this is soon corrected, this ruling and its impact will only increase the war on the working class in America and only exacerbate the push toward a government of the corporations, by the corporations (and their toadies), and for the corporations.
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Trying to get people to think about that fact, in light of Citizens United specifically is why I joined this board.

    I personally believe that modern persuasion science, coupled with CU, is one of the greatest threats facing the working class in this country.

    Both sides in this country point to people on the other side who believe ridiculous things.

    If anyone would like to know HOW they were led to believe these things, I invite you to explore the site in my sig. There is much there to see, linked to the original, peer reviewed research. All in an entertaining format. And virtually devoid of partisanship. (The author is a research psychology grad student from the UK)

    Once exposed to HOW bs can be installed in your head it becomes much more difficult to do so. Further, you tend to SEE it more when its in play.

    I'm betting that if enough people realize the extent to which they are being slipped the equivalent of mental "rufees" they won't take too kindly to it.

    You would be better off thinking for yourself and quit listening to what they are selling you.

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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    I'm doing nothing of the sort. I never said that some people should be able to buy ads and others should not. In fact, all I stated was that full disclosure laws are warranted to prevent, or at least track and then prevent in the future, most vote buying. I haven't even stated what my actual qualms with the current system are.

    To be clear, citizen united wasn't just a boon to corps, it was a boon to anyone with a lot of money, clout, or any large group Unions, Corps, Church Group, Universities, PACs, etc
    Large groups are simply small groups banding together over a common cause.

  10. #40
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    the question is actually: "Do Americans Lose their First Amendment Rights when they join together corporately or in a union"?

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