View Poll Results: Is Citizen's United et al ruling compatible with democracy?

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  • yes

    29 65.91%
  • no

    15 34.09%
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Thread: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

  1. #141
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    I gotta kinda wonder about a new guy who claims that scientific persuasion is of negligible impact using textbook examples of successful and unsuccesful PR campaigns.

    Right off the top of your head.

    "Nothing to see here folks, move along."
    LOL. I've discussed this stuff for years.

  2. #142
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    The Fair Elections Now Act is a promising remedy;
    Home | Fair Elections Now
    I don't have time to read through this right now but I'd venture to guess it's something along the lines of what Arizona did and the USSC tossed.

    Judaism: The Jewish site | The fate of Arizona’s Clean Elections Act, which the Supreme Court on Monday declared unconstitutional, was foreshadowed March 28, during oral arguments. Lawyers defending the law insisted its purpose was to combat corruption or the appearance thereof. The court has repeatedly said this is the only constitutionally permissible reason for restricting the quantity of political speech. The law’s defenders insisted its purpose was not to “level the playing field” by equalizing candidates’ resources, which the court has declared an unconstitutional reason for regulating speech. But Chief Justice John Roberts replied: “Well, I checked the Citizens Clean Elections Commission Web site this morning, and it says that this act was passed to ‘level the playing field’ when it comes to running for office.” Game over.

    George Will

  3. #143
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Gotta link for that? Not bein a jerk. Haven't seen that and its relevant to my thinking on this issue.
    I have about 5 minutes right now. Give me some time (if you see me post and still have no link, be patient, it will be today).

  4. #144
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    They aren't citizens in the country, they shouldn't be allowed to directly influence elections or buy, which often happens, influence in congress.

    The best solution would be for candidates to simply stick to campaigning in person and doing debates, but that's Utopian and not very realistic. I also do not like the idea of institutionalizing the big parties which is what public funding of election ads can, but not always, happen. We already have this with publicly funded primary elections.

    I for one am for free speech, even if it is expensive. However, for this to work, it needs to be known by everyone. Hyper-information is what I personally would advocate, this means full disclosure laws. IMO, you give up your right to privacy when you take a more active part in politics than voting. I have the right to know who donates money to who. If you are worried about reprisal, then make it illegal to fire people for their political opinion, or you can deal with it?
    Where does it state this in the Constitution? You do not have the right to know where people spend their own money. It's none of your business.

  5. #145
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Just an observation and this is hardly scientific. It was noted before that my opinion was on the losing end of public opinion. I even agreed that I likely was. According to the poll here, I'm not.

  6. #146
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    You forgot the poll!

    No, it is not compatible.

    Unlimited anonymous money will be the end of our democracy.

    If you're going to shout over everybody by means of your wealth, then I want to know who you are so that I can vote against you with my dollars if necessary. Deny you my business if I disagree with your donation, give you my business if I support it.

    Money is not speech. The ability to anonymously buy EVERY SINGLE MINUTE of available airtime was certainly not what the Founders had in mind.

    Corporations are not people. They can be neither imprisoned nor executed. They never sleep. They share no DNA with homo sapiens.

    The upcoming election will certainly be akin to a trip through the Looking Glass.

    Well said! I agree completely.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Where does it state this in the Constitution? You do not have the right to know where people spend their own money. It's none of your business.
    You cannot use the constitution to defend these actions because the founders never envisioned it, and TBH, sticking to the constitution, in a strict manner, in this regard is simply a dodge. When you are trying to affect the political policy of the nation, you are having an impact on me. Because of this impact, I have a right to know how that will affect me, why it is being done, and the interest that are supporting it Because it affects me. In order to be a well informed voter, and to exercise the privileged of voting in a view consistent with Jefferson, I need this information.
    Hayek - too liberal for republicans

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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Just an observation and this is hardly scientific. It was noted before that my opinion was on the losing end of public opinion. I even agreed that I likely was. According to the poll here, I'm not.
    Your observation is badly skewed. The fact that political forum poll consisting of a majority of conservative members agree with a conservative position is hardly indicative of the general public's position on the subject.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #149
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Your observation is badly skewed. The fact that political forum poll consisting of a majority of conservative members agree with a conservative position is hardly indicative of the general public's position on the subject.
    Read posts 98 and 102 before you start taking 1Perry seriously.
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Read posts 98 and 102 before you start taking 1Perry seriously.
    I see what you mean, thanks for the heads-up!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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