View Poll Results: Is Citizen's United et al ruling compatible with democracy?

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  • yes

    29 65.91%
  • no

    15 34.09%
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Thread: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

  1. #131
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I understand. You've thrown in the towel. It's a simple concept and question. If one person has a Constitutional Right to have his say, what happens that makes it wrong when he gets together with similiar minded people?
    Nothing, until unlimited money provides grotesque amplification of one group's speech over a less well funded group of equal number.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Nothing, until unlimited money provides grotesque amplification of one group's speech over a less well funded group of equal number.
    What is the alternative that you want to provide?

  3. #133
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Free speech is not always pretty. Rights are not always positive. It is still better than the alternative.



    The single charismatic speaker can drown out 50 unprepared speakers. One guy caused the death of 900 in Jonestown.



    Do you know 20 people that have banded together to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to influence an election or is this just a hypothetical?
    Corporate boards were under scrutiny for campaign contributions that supported agendas not shared by their shareholders without their knowledge.

    Basically the same thing the right claims about unions supporting Dems even though not all union members are Dems. Just on the shareholder side of the coin.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Corporate boards were under scrutiny for campaign contributions that supported agendas not shared by their shareholders without their knowledge.
    And we changed that.

  5. #135
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Why? Millions upon millions did not help Kerry. You have this belief that people can not think for themselves. A small portion perhaps can't but again, there are negatives to our freedoms but it's better than the alternative.

    How much did Gore pay Naomi Wolf (who I like by the way) to help make him more manly? It didn't work.
    I gotta kinda wonder about a new guy who claims that scientific persuasion is of negligible impact using textbook examples of successful and unsuccesful PR campaigns.

    Right off the top of your head.

    "Nothing to see here folks, move along."
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
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  6. #136
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by HippoDance69 View Post
    What is the alternative that you want to provide?
    The Fair Elections Now Act is a promising remedy;
    Home | Fair Elections Now
    Economic Left/Right: -7.25, Authoritarian/Libertarian:-7.13
    All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume. -Noam Chomsky

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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by HippoDance69 View Post
    What is the alternative that you want to provide?
    Pie in the sky?

    Publicly funded elections. Top 3-4 candidates. Instant runoff, I think the method is. Or something similar.

    Campaign ad time to be provided free of cost by commercial stations as a condition of their license. Slots to be awarded by lot. Making television and radio is so much easier now that it can effectively be done by volunteer effort.

    What we're getting isn't more voices being heard, its fewer voices getting heard more often at much higher volume.

    Its not discourse, its propaganda wars.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    And we changed that.
    Gotta link for that? Not bein a jerk. Haven't seen that and its relevant to my thinking on this issue.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by HippoDance69 View Post
    I don't discriminate based on country of origin. I know this may sound extreme, but I judge ideas based purely on their merit. Irregardless if someone from a different country is supplying the means for me to know of the idea, or someone right down the street.

    What, exactly, do you find objectionable?
    They aren't citizens in the country, they shouldn't be allowed to directly influence elections or buy, which often happens, influence in congress.

    The best solution would be for candidates to simply stick to campaigning in person and doing debates, but that's Utopian and not very realistic. I also do not like the idea of institutionalizing the big parties which is what public funding of election ads can, but not always, happen. We already have this with publicly funded primary elections.

    I for one am for free speech, even if it is expensive. However, for this to work, it needs to be known by everyone. Hyper-information is what I personally would advocate, this means full disclosure laws. IMO, you give up your right to privacy when you take a more active part in politics than voting. I have the right to know who donates money to who. If you are worried about reprisal, then make it illegal to fire people for their political opinion, or you can deal with it?
    Last edited by xpiher; 07-06-11 at 03:18 AM.
    Hayek - too liberal for republicans

  10. #140
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    I think anything outside of totally equal public funding of campaigns is uncompatible with democracy. The lobbyists were already turning the country into a plutocracy now unions and corporations have unlimited influence. Obama is already talking about raising $1bil for the 2012 campaign.
    "It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this." Bertrand Russell

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