View Poll Results: Is Citizen's United et al ruling compatible with democracy?

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  • yes

    29 65.91%
  • no

    15 34.09%
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Thread: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

  1. #121
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    We do agree and yet I don't see anyone else in here making the generalizations that you accuse them of.
    Post number 5 for one.

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    Corporations are monolithic, illegitimate institutions, which enrich themselves through theft, and, are, fundamentally, antithetical to democracy.
    Ruling that something is not protected speech is, in fact, "going against the Constitution" because it directly ignores the 1st Amendment. Many of our laws "go against the Constitution" and they do so when we decide that certain parts of the Constitution shouldn't apply to certain action (i.e. free speech shouldn't apply to libel). It's about "throwing our rights away for no reason" as you said earlier, so if your argument rests on "the Constitution says so", then that isn't a compelling or valid argument.
    There are times when rights conflict and the courts must rule which one trumps the other. You simply not liking something is never going to trump a right.

  2. #122
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Post number 5 for one.
    i was wrong then.

    There are times when rights conflict and the courts must rule which one trumps the other. You simply not liking something is never going to trump a right.
    And again, you pull the same exact straw man. I have not argued AT ALL that the Constitution should be changed just because I don't like something. Furthermore, I have said over and over again that I don't dislike corporations. And finally, even NGNM85's argument isn't based just in "dislike", it's based in seeing fundamental problems with corporations and their impact on society. So maybe you should finally address people's actual arguments instead of reducing them to "simply not liking something" because that's just an imaginary argument you've created, particularly in regards to my posts.

  3. #123
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Free Speech has many fundemental problems. It's still far, far better than the alternative.

  4. #124
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I will say that I do not care much for this myself. As I've said before though, I do not like that the KKK can have their say in the local park either. Just because I do not like it is not reason enough to curtail the rights of others.

    There is much that those who band together have to say that I do not like. I despise removing their right to say it even more though.
    Its not about liking what people have to say, its about why should a person in another state, who has no ties to that state, be able to lobby in that state? It would be like a foreign national giving money to congress.
    Hayek - too liberal for republicans

  5. #125
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Its not about liking what people have to say, its about why should a person in another state, who has no ties to that state, be able to lobby in that state? It would be like a foreign national giving money to congress.
    You understand that a foreign national, while (s)he cannot donate directly to a Congressional Caimpaign, can donate to a Political Action Committee. Even one whose only purpose is to elect a singular Congressional Represenative?

  6. #126
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by HippoDance69 View Post
    You understand that a foreign national, while (s)he cannot donate directly to a Congressional Caimpaign, can donate to a Political Action Committee. Even one whose only purpose is to elect a singular Congressional Represenative?
    Yes, I do know that. Do you not find a problem with that?
    Hayek - too liberal for republicans

  7. #127
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Yes, I do know that. Do you not find a problem with that?
    I don't discriminate based on country of origin. I know this may sound extreme, but I judge ideas based purely on their merit. Irregardless if someone from a different country is supplying the means for me to know of the idea, or someone right down the street.

    What, exactly, do you find objectionable?

  8. #128
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Its not about liking what people have to say, its about why should a person in another state, who has no ties to that state, be able to lobby in that state? It would be like a foreign national giving money to congress.
    No, that would be illegal.



    Again, there are negatives to our freedoms. It's better than not having them.

  9. #129
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    No and I provided an example. John Kerry spent how many millions upon millions of dollars and a guy with a decades old beef with him, brought him down.
    Now imagine what the PR geniuses who came up with that one will do with unlimited anonymous money.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  10. #130
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    Re: Is Citizen's United et al (new rulings) compatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Now imagine what the PR geniuses who came up with that one will do with unlimited anonymous money.
    Why? Millions upon millions did not help Kerry. You have this belief that people can not think for themselves. A small portion perhaps can't but again, there are negatives to our freedoms but it's better than the alternative.

    How much did Gore pay Naomi Wolf (who I like by the way) to help make him more manly? It didn't work.
    Last edited by 1Perry; 07-05-11 at 11:29 PM.

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