View Poll Results: Should male circumcision be banned?

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  • Yes

    13 19.70%
  • No

    53 80.30%
  • Yes, but allow a clause for religious beliefs.

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Thread: Should male circumcision be banned?

  1. #91
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    Re: Should male circumcision be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    Now you're talking about anti-natalism, which is a rather different concept all together from a human being who is already here.
    They are already here when we cut away the placenta.

    That human being is already here at the point when they're circ'ed, and they already have a right to not being inflicted with non-consensual bodily harm. If the parents wanted to cut off their earlobes, they'd be locked up and the kid would be put up for adoption. But one could argue that removing the earlobes has fewer potential harms than circumcision. So why is it not ok?
    But yet they can poke holes in them. You see a harm. The overwhelming vast majority see a benefit.

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    Re: Should male circumcision be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    They are already here when we cut away the placenta.

    But yet they can poke holes in them. You see a harm. The overwhelming vast majority see a benefit.
    Uh, a planceta isn't part of a person. But anyway...

    Science sees a harm. No one who had it done as an infant as anything to compare it against. Those who had it done in adulthood are lukewarm, and typically had it done out of rare cases of medical necessity, which sort of makes it pointless to complain about.

    An infant may or may not (but almost always not) have such a problem, changing the context of this debate considerable.

    I really don't understand why this particular kind of non-consensual surgery is ok, and all others are not. It has been shown to you over and over that the "benefits" are almost entirely myths.

    For the record, I'm against infant ear piercing too. I find that somewhat less heinous, since it can heal. But I still don't think it's right.

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    Re: Should male circumcision be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    It's not a baby at that point. There in lies the problem with your argument.
    Sure it is. It's just as alive as it is when it is circumsized.

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    Re: Should male circumcision be banned?

    This practice began rooted in Religion and in Africa it is a cultural ritual in the West it is based on false claims of it being healthier or some such nonsense.

    Bottom line is if a woman has freedom of choice over her body every male should have the same right, a personal choice. But for Mom and Dad to do it to a newborn I see as a bit too much. But this is a free country.

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    Re: Should male circumcision be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by SPC View Post
    Sure it is. It's just as alive as it is when it is circumsized.
    ...despite every single piece of evidence being to the contrary.

    Your opinion here is about as rational as your opinion on circumcision. I see a pattern.

  6. #96
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    Re: Should male circumcision be banned?

    Here is a well known biology professors take on it:

    Something has stirred up the anti-circumcision brigade : Pharyngula
    I've found out. It seems Russell Crowe had a twitter tantrum over circumcision. He's against it. So am I. But apparently, I am not sufficiently angry about circumcision, and I belittled people who make it an obsession. I'm not going to apologize for that; I consider circumcision to be needless cosmetic surgery and a barbaric practice, and I'm not going to condone it, but neither am I going to go off the deep end like that guy and consider my life ruined by it. A majority of American males have been circumcised, and we're a randy, raunchy, sexed-up lot who don't seem to be suffering from an epidemic of sexual inadequacy. Well, maybe eident9 is, but one frustrated guy does not an epidemic make.

    Now Salon has followed up with an article that suggests that circumcision may actually have some health benefits. I am not impressed. They cite a couple of incomplete epidemiological studies in African populations for HIV infection, and they come up with some astounding figures: a 50-60% reduction in infection rates. Wow, with that kind of advantage…sign me up.

    However, these are deeply flawed studies. None of them were completed: they all abandoned the protocol and stopped the research as soon as preliminary results gave them positive values. This is like shooting craps and announcing that all your dice throws were practice…until you get a good roll, and then, yeah, that was the real deal. That one counts.

    They all overstate their results. That 50-60% reduction was in relative rate, in comparison across the two groups. The actual calculated protection in absolute terms conferred by circumcision was a 2% reduction in the likelihood of infection. That doesn't dazzle me, either, and given that the studies were terminated when they got their best results, I'm not persuaded.

    And finally, give me a plausible mechanism for how circumcision would achieve these remarkable gains. Tell me how it is supposed to work. If it's something to do with hygiene, it seems to me that better sex and health education should have the same or better effect than lopping off bits of skin.

    So to my crackpot complainer, I say no apologies. I also say as I always have that I oppose circumcision, think it is a pointless and petty bit of suffering to put children through and ought to be discouraged, but I also don't think it's as hideously damaging as the obsessive nuts want to claim. Also, in the context of the original post, I consider it a prime example of selfish privilege to invade discussions of female genital mutilation, which does cause serious sexual and medical problems, with demands that we pay more attention to the lesser concerns of males getting lightly scarred penises.
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    Re: Should male circumcision be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    Uh, a planceta isn't part of a person. But anyway...

    Science sees a harm. No one who had it done as an infant as anything to compare it against. Those who had it done in adulthood are lukewarm, and typically had it done out of rare cases of medical necessity, which sort of makes it pointless to complain about.

    An infant may or may not (but almost always not) have such a problem, changing the context of this debate considerable.

    I really don't understand why this particular kind of non-consensual surgery is ok, and all others are not. It has been shown to you over and over that the "benefits" are almost entirely myths.

    For the record, I'm against infant ear piercing too. I find that somewhat less heinous, since it can heal. But I still don't think it's right.
    I had a friend who was circumcised later in life. He worked at a convenience store/gas station and one of his other friends came in after hearing he had just had the surgery. The friends girlfriend came in wearing a tube top and walked behind a shelf where only my friend who had just had the surgery could see her....and pulled her tube top down. OUCH!

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    Re: Should male circumcision be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Here is a source to back what I've said. IMO, Howe is over-the-top in regards to some of his others criticisms for circumcision. But his critique of the Africa studies is exactly what I have heard reverberated from many other researchers.
    Interesting read but that appears to be an advocy group.

    The idea that circumcision can prevent AIDS was developed by Fink, a long-time advocate of mass circumcision.

    Nobody is argueing that it can prevent AIDS. The arguement is that it lessens the chance of getting AIDS.

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    Re: Should male circumcision be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by SPC View Post
    I had a friend who was circumcised later in life. He worked at a convenience store/gas station and one of his other friends came in after hearing he had just had the surgery. The friends girlfriend came in wearing a tube top and walked behind a shelf where only my friend who had just had the surgery could see her....and pulled her tube top down. OUCH!
    LOL

    haha that's awesome
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    Re: Should male circumcision be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Interesting read but that appears to be an advocy group.

    The idea that circumcision can prevent AIDS was developed by Fink, a long-time advocate of mass circumcision.

    Nobody is argueing that it can prevent AIDS. The arguement is that it lessens the chance of getting AIDS.
    The only parts we care about are the criticisms of the "circumcision reduces HIV" studies. Care to tackle that or will you continue to dodge and dance by citing irrelevant portions?
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