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  • Russia is getting better

    18 58.06%
  • Level with the USSR

    8 25.81%
  • Getting worse

    5 16.13%
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Thread: Is Russia just as bad as the Soviet Union?

  1. #31
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    Re: Is Russia just as bad as the Soviet Union?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    what part of your heritage?
    The Soviet part. :P I am Soviet, though now I'm also British and French. My mother was Russian, my father English. We lived in the Soviet Union for years, and then also in Russia after the USSR collapsed into the annals of history.

  2. #32
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    Re: Is Russia just as bad as the Soviet Union?

    Oh goodie, epic commie showdown!
    I was obviously mocking celticwar17. You guys ruined it by making me explain myself.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  3. #33
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    Re: Is Russia just as bad as the Soviet Union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    I was obviously mocking celticwar17. You guys ruined it by making me explain myself.
    Ah, my apologies. I thought you were serious. :P I was wondering why your avatar is dear old Lenin, with such anti-Soviet views, though. XD

  4. #34
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    Re: Is Russia just as bad as the Soviet Union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    I was obviously mocking celticwar17. You guys ruined it by making me explain myself.
    sorry wasn't reading. I was hoping for more
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  5. #35
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    Re: Is Russia just as bad as the Soviet Union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    For whom? The collapse of the USSR was absolutely terrible for the majority of Russian citizens.
    ...yeah, I know. Good thing that was ten years ago, and we're talking about Russia now. What are you even saying? And in regards to something else you posted, just because there was no chattel slavery in USSR, does not mean there was no slave labor: Gulag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    You can gussy this up and call it "forced labor" or "prison labor" if you want, but it's essentially slave labor.

    Also, to those who think crime is bad in the current Russian Federation? It was actually worse in the nineties. Wrap your mind around that.
    SWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAG
    Quote Originally Posted by Josie
    Thanks for your awesomeness, Jeezy.

  6. #36
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    Re: Is Russia just as bad as the Soviet Union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Molotok View Post
    Well, I feel like I can speak with some measure of expertise on this subject, being Russian myself. I live between the UK and Russia, now, but I've spent near on half my life (a considerable long time, I might add) in that country, and the Soviet Union.

    And I'm here to say, the question of this poll is quite a loaded one. I don't know whether the Russia of now is better or worse than the Soviet Union was -- it certainly is different. But the important part of this post is to say that the Soviet Union wasn't bad. Most of you have spent your entire lives on one side of the Iron Curtain, or, for the younger members of DP, on neither side. There's so much bad press about the Soviet Union, such a loud minority of Russian emigres and dissenters, and, of course, half the world propagating this sort of thing. They say history is written by the victors, but I think it is more apt to say that what's for certain is that history is written by the survivors.

    Point is, though, that the Soviet Union wasn't bad, wasn't a hellhole, wasn't an 'evil empire'. It had its problems, like the other nations of the world, but it had its glories and victories as well. And I'd bet that if you ask most of the Russians today how they felt about the Soviet Union, nostalgia would be the reigning emotion in their answers.

    So, long post-short, this poll is bloody stupid, because it's heavily biased against Russia, and no-matter what is decided, Russia is going to lose out.
    The guy with the hammer-and-sickle avatar is talking about bias?

    As if the Soviet Union was some misunderstood, crack-addicted celebrity being hounded by the international press. There wasn't much need to fabricate or exaggerate anything. The Soviet government did what people said it did. The only reason people back there feel nostalgia is because everyone else left -- hence the massive population decline.
    Last edited by Jeezy; 06-30-11 at 06:34 PM.
    SWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAG
    Quote Originally Posted by Josie
    Thanks for your awesomeness, Jeezy.

  7. #37
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    Re: Is Russia just as bad as the Soviet Union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    The guy with the hammer-and-sickle avatar is talking about bias?

    As if the Soviet Union was some misunderstood, crack-addicted celebrity being hounded by the international press. There wasn't much need to fabricate or exaggerate anything. The Soviet government did what people said it did. The only reason people back there feel nostalgia is because everyone else left -- hence the massive population decline.
    I don't think it was misunderstood, I think it was misrepresented. I lived there. Many of my friends and family lived there. I know, from direct experience, that the things said about it were untrue, and are untrue. It's just a shame, is all.

    Also, the reason the population declined is the other fourteen republics split away from Russia. XD If you added them all up, their population would again total the Soviet Union's, adjusting for the increasing birth rates in this new century. Russia's population didn't all just pack up and leave when the Soviet Union dissolved. XD

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    Re: Is Russia just as bad as the Soviet Union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    ...yeah, I know. Good thing that was ten years ago, and we're talking about Russia now. What are you even saying? And in regards to something else you posted, just because there was no chattel slavery in USSR, does not mean there was no slave labor: Gulag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    You can gussy this up and call it "forced labor" or "prison labor" if you want, but it's essentially slave labor.

    Also, to those who think crime is bad in the current Russian Federation? It was actually worse in the nineties. Wrap your mind around that.
    It was bad in the 90's BECAUSE the Soviet Union collapsed. Life in the Soviet Union was better than life in Russian in the 90s, which is why Russians are baffled that the West heralds the decline of the Soviet Union as some great triumph. It was a disaster.

    Anyway, I might add that crime rates in the US is worse than crime in Russia right now. XD

  9. #39
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    Re: Is Russia just as bad as the Soviet Union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Molotok View Post
    I don't think it was misunderstood, I think it was misrepresented. I lived there. Many of my friends and family lived there. I know, from direct experience, that the things said about it were untrue, and are untrue. It's just a shame, is all.
    Maybe the Russian people were misrepresented, but generally the USSR was, in fact, guilty as charged.

    Quote Originally Posted by Molotok View Post
    Also, the reason the population declined is the other fourteen republics split away from Russia. XD If you added them all up, their population would again total the Soviet Union's, adjusting for the increasing birth rates in this new century. Russia's population didn't all just pack up and leave when the Soviet Union dissolved. XD
    This is highly questionable, given the demographic trends in Russia and the CIS post-1991.

    And besides, my whole point was that the people who would NOT have looked upon the Soviet Union nostalgically were the ones who left. That's what I mean when I say "everyone else." You can't deny that the population of eastern Europe declined after 1991, even if it has recovered in some places by now. It's historical fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Molotok View Post
    It was bad in the 90's BECAUSE the Soviet Union collapsed. Life in the Soviet Union was better than life in Russian in the 90s, which is why Russians are baffled that the West heralds the decline of the Soviet Union as some great triumph. It was a disaster.
    Oh for god's sake...go read the post he quoted from me and see why his response doesn't make sense. All I said was that economically, things are much better now. Not in the nineties. Now. You're arguing on the side of someone who completely misunderstood me in the first place.
    Last edited by Jeezy; 06-30-11 at 07:21 PM.
    SWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAG
    Quote Originally Posted by Josie
    Thanks for your awesomeness, Jeezy.

  10. #40
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    Re: Is Russia just as bad as the Soviet Union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    ...yeah, I know. Good thing that was ten years ago, and we're talking about Russia now. What are you even saying? And in regards to something else you posted, just because there was no chattel slavery in USSR, does not mean there was no slave labor: Gulag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    You can gussy this up and call it "forced labor" or "prison labor" if you want, but it's essentially slave labor.

    Also, to those who think crime is bad in the current Russian Federation? It was actually worse in the nineties. Wrap your mind around that.
    I don't get how people can completely ignore history... severe case of Hindsight bias going on here.

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