View Poll Results: Is North Korea communistic?

Voters
30. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    15 50.00%
  • No

    10 33.33%
  • Unsure

    5 16.67%
Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst ... 7891011 LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 107

Thread: Is North Korea a communistic State?

  1. #81
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Last Seen
    07-07-16 @ 08:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    2,854

    Re: Is North Korea a communistic State?

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    I've said this before; but I'm still struck by the fact that some of the most impassioned critics of socialism seem to have the weakest grasp of it.
    And what relevance does this have to do with the thread?

    My experience does not fit your comment. In general the ones who have the weakest grasp, are the ones who tend to not care very much.

  2. #82
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    12-09-14 @ 11:36 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,883

    Re: Is North Korea a communistic State?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    And what relevance does this have to do with the thread?

    My experience does not fit your comment. In general the ones who have the weakest grasp, are the ones who tend to not care very much.
    Perhaps we need to change words? In general, the ones with the most uninformed grasp, are the ones who are the most impassioned critics. People here are defining Communism as a class based society, with property rights, rule by the few and with a capitalist economy. I do agree with you that the weakest are the least caring.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  3. #83
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    12-09-14 @ 11:36 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,883

    Re: Is North Korea a communistic State?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    They will never work, because humans cannot live that way.
    I wasn't aware that humans were the only species in the Universe. Can you support your assertion that they are? You claimed outright his theories won't work. By that measure they won't work anywhere. I limited the theory to not working in greedy humans. Which we both agree on. You took it far further then I and you must support your assertion that it won't work in the broadest sense.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  4. #84
    Professor
    NGNM85's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Last Seen
    11-10-17 @ 11:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    1,571

    Re: Is North Korea a communistic State?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    And what relevance does this have to do with the thread?

    My experience does not fit your comment. In general the ones who have the weakest grasp, are the ones who tend to not care very much.
    My experience is very much the opposite. Most of the firecest critics of socialism know the least about it. They hate it, and they know they hate it, because they're knowledge of it usually comes from right-wing propaganda, telling them that Socialism is the primordial source of all evil, therefore, there's no sense in actually learning about it, actually reading socialist literature, etc.

    I mentioned it because you seemed to basing your asessment of North Korea, and Socialism, solely on the basis of a Wikipedia article. North Korea is a lot of things, it's certainly about the worst kind of police state you could have a nightmare about, however; it, most certainly, is not socialist. The heart of Socialism has always been workers' democracy. Leninism, and, by extension, the hard-line antecedents, were a right-wing perversion of what had been the consensus among various Socialist tendencies. Thusly, they were bitterly condemned, by the leading Socialist intellectuals of the day; the leading Marxists, like Anton Pannekoek, Karl Korsch, Rosa Luxemberg, and even Trotsky, before he had a change of heart, as well as the Anarchists, like Emma Goldman, Alexander Berkman, etc. One need only read what they wrote about it.
    Economic Left/Right: -7.25, Authoritarian/Libertarian:-7.13
    All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume. -Noam Chomsky

  5. #85
    Gradualist

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    09-25-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    34,949
    Blog Entries
    6

    Re: Is North Korea a communistic State?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Wikipedia is my source for definitions.
    You should really you know get a better source for information man.
    I can go on there and say "Bush was the spawn of satan" and guess what according to wikiapedia it would be true...

    You are certainly not my source of definition.
    Never said i was. I was just saying maybe you should do some "socialistic" reading then maybe you could understand but in the mean time keep up wit hthe 5th grade definition of "socialism is where the government owns everything and you have no property" keep believeing that.
    But anyways why are we even talking about socialism when this thread is about communism?

    You will see that socialist disagree about which definition is correct.
    See.. No... Most COMMUNISTS disagree about what communism is and who was actually a communist and what variation of communism is correct, you know Lennism, Stalinism, Trostkyism, Marxism-Lennism, Maoism etc etc... Most people agree on what socialism is, and its pretty much what a stated before bud.

    Why should I pick one of them, when Wikipedia provides the most balanced definition?
    There really is no such thing on a "balanced" definiton. Its either socialism or not socialism... Pretty simple.



    No, I already answered that question. Why do feel the need to pretend like you don't know the answer?
    Because it certainly seems like this is the degree of your knowledge..
    No offence.

    I use Wikipedia for definition.
    Well your definition is awful.

    I do not use Wikipedia for all my knowledge
    It sure does seem so. Esepcially on the topic of socialism.

    and I never use youtube as you suggest.
    Did i suggest?
    I do not recall doing this.

    However, for definitions, especially a debated one like socialism.
    Its really not debated...

    Then I use Wikipedia because they can be changed by everyone, including you.
    Sounds like a terribly unreliable source then.. Dont you think? Something that can be changed based on someones will to change it...

    If you have evidence that the definition is wrong, then you can change it.
    WOW

    The reason you don't like it, is because they got evidence while you don't.
    Evidence? What evidence do you need to define an ideology?



    If you believe that is the definition and have evidence to back it up.
    You mean like sources?

    Right now, we are using the official definition, which do not require democracy, democratic workplaces or communes.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
    Wikipedia has the "official definiton". Kid in college and even in highschool Wikipedia is not even considered a source when you write papers or give a speech you do realize this right?
    How about this for the "official definiton".
    Oxford English Dictionary defines socialism as: Socialism: (n.) 1. A theory or policy of social organization which aims at or advocates the ownership and control of the means of production, capital, land, property, etc., by the community as a whole, and their administration or distribution in the interests of all.



    What you are doing is trying to change the definition of socialism to the kind of socialism you support.
    No its what authors, political scientists, philospophers, SOCIALISTS, and researches have said, wrote, and what history has shown us about socialism..

    Then you can exclude North Korea.
    Whats is plain and simple and pretty self reliable if you knew or had any ****ing clue what socialism was you would see well North Korea is not socialist.

    However, your kind of socialism is only one kind of socialism.
    No democratic socialism is not the only type of socialism..
    There is Utopian socialism, democratic socialism, libetarian socialism, social democracy, state socialism, syndicalism, marxian socialism, and communal socialism...

    To be honest it sounds like you support Trotskyism. If Trotskyism was the same as socialism, then they would have named it socialism. But it is not. Socialism is a big term, and it includes things you don't like.
    hahahah What the ****?




    They are not slaves. They get free goodies such as free education.
    No they are slaves as the state bud...



    Yes, that is your argument. You are making your own definition of socialism, and defining bad socialist countries as red fascism.
    Uhhh no. That is not my argument. You clearly have no idea what socialism is.
    Cuba. Cuba is a socialist state. They are not doing to hot. Have some human right ****s against them. They are socialist. They are a state socialist system but hey guess what they are socialist.

    In fact, if for instance Soviet was confident that the people supported socialism, then they would have been democracies.
    Really?
    Your going around in circles.
    Straw man claim.

    People would have supported socialism if it actually works. If a country wants to fulfill your homemade definition, then they have to be successful.
    Venezuela and much of South America is turning to socialism and actually doing pretty swell..



    That's weird, how come North Korea is mentioned over and over again in the article and other articles. It is part of the planned economies type of socialism.
    You do realize that just because you are a planned economy it does not mean your socialsit?





    Really? In what way was North Korea so different from China? Do you think Chinese people had anything to say under Mao? Do you think they could control their work places? Do you think there was no hierarchies under Mao?
    Yes do a lot of those questions about China to a degree... Yes...

    Socialism in China under Mao and socialism in North Korea is very similar.
    Not at all really.


  6. #86
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Last Seen
    07-07-16 @ 08:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    2,854

    Re: Is North Korea a communistic State?

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    My experience is very much the opposite. Most of the firecest critics of socialism know the least about it. They hate it, and they know they hate it, because they're knowledge of it usually comes from right-wing propaganda, telling them that Socialism is the primordial source of all evil, therefore, there's no sense in actually learning about it, actually reading socialist literature, etc.

    I mentioned it because you seemed to basing your asessment of North Korea, and Socialism, solely on the basis of a Wikipedia article. North Korea is a lot of things, it's certainly about the worst kind of police state you could have a nightmare about, however; it, most certainly, is not socialist. The heart of Socialism has always been workers' democracy. Leninism, and, by extension, the hard-line antecedents, were a right-wing perversion of what had been the consensus among various Socialist tendencies. Thusly, they were bitterly condemned, by the leading Socialist intellectuals of the day; the leading Marxists, like Anton Pannekoek, Karl Korsch, Rosa Luxemberg, and even Trotsky, before he had a change of heart, as well as the Anarchists, like Emma Goldman, Alexander Berkman, etc. One need only read what they wrote about it.
    Well, then I think you missed completly. I do not base myself on a wikipedia article. I use Wikipedia for definitions for controversial topics. That is not the same as using wikipedia for everything.

    Secondly, I don't read far right propaganda. Compared to the US I'm in the middle. You are supposedly a libertarian, that is far right. You are wrong about socialism, because you are basing socialism on a few types of socialism. Socialism is a bigger term, that's why all official sources define it that way.

    Those socialists were condemned by some, applauded by others. That's because there are different kinds of socialism. Your completely off the mark, and is just insulting. For me it seems like you take your preconceived notions, and everyone that disagrees with you are stupid. Is Oxford dictionary stupid as well? They agree with wikipedia, and they do not require democratic workplaces.
    Read this a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
    Last edited by Camlon; 07-01-11 at 10:52 AM.

  7. #87
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Last Seen
    07-07-16 @ 08:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    2,854

    Re: Is North Korea a communistic State?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    You should really you know get a better source for information man.
    I can go on there and say "Bush was the spawn of satan" and guess what according to wikiapedia it would be true...
    Ok, go ahead. Write that in this article George W. Bush - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    It will be interesting to see how long it lasts.

    Also, if you can just change Bush Article to that, then go ahead changing socialism article to your own homemade definition.

    Evidence? What evidence do you need to define an ideology?
    If you want to define something, then you can't just use your own homemade definition. I'm sorry. In general wikipedia will use different dictionaries and also books for definition. However, I can use dictionaries as well. Let's take a look at definition of socialism from Oxford Dictionaries Online
    And they also disagree with you. Read this

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxford Dictionaries
    a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.


    Never said i was. I was just saying maybe you should do some "socialistic" reading then maybe you could understand but in the mean time keep up wit hthe 5th grade definition of "socialism is where the government owns everything and you have no property" keep believeing that.
    Maybe you should send oxford dictionary a letter to tell them that their definition is a fifth grade definition. I'm sure they will agree with you and put in your homemade definition instead.


    Because it certainly seems like this is the degree of your knowledge..
    No offence.
    You are funny. Maybe take a look in the mirror?

    Well your definition is awful.
    It's not my definition. It's wikipedia and Oxford definition. You are the one making your own definition.





    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
    Wikipedia has the "official definiton". Kid in college and even in highschool Wikipedia is not even considered a source when you write papers or give a speech you do realize this right?
    Yes, but that is because it is not an academic source. Secondly the quality varies a lot from article to article. Articles that don't get visited very much, are articles with lower quality. Those are in general the articles you need in a paper. Therefore, you shouldn't use Wikipedia for school work.


    Cuba is a socialist state. They are not doing to hot. Have some human right ****s against them. They are socialist. They are a state socialist system but hey guess what they are socialist.
    So Cuba is socialist, but North Korea is not. You must be ****ing kidding me. How can Cuba be socialist, they have private economy? 22% of the formal work force work in the private sector and even more if you include informal sector. I mean supposedly only 40% of the population work. They are just a regulated economy. You seem to define socialism as "country close to government take over, that I support"

    Is Venezuela socialist as well? Is Sweden socialist?


    Venezuela and much of South America is turning to socialism and actually doing pretty swell..


    Do you know anything about South America? There is only one country turning towards socialism, and that is Venezuela. And Venezuela economy is in the gutter. They should have been the richest country in South America, because of all of their oil, but now soon Peru is richer than Venezuela and Chile is much richer than Venezuela. Not only that, but Venezuela was one of the richest countries in the world before they got democracy.

    Also Caracas (capital of Venezuela) is the most violent city in the world.



    Yes do a lot of those questions about China to a degree... Yes...
    I'm sorry, have you ever been to China during the 1980s? In what way did they have anything to say? Most people were farmers, similar to North Korea. People could not vote, and they were not able to even decide over their own lives. They might have been placed somewhere to work. They were poor and got pretty much nothing for their work.

    In what way are they so different? Or is your knowledge about China similar to your knowledge about Venezuela?
    Last edited by Camlon; 07-01-11 at 11:43 AM.

  8. #88
    Gradualist

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    09-25-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    34,949
    Blog Entries
    6

    Re: Is North Korea a communistic State?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Well, then I think you missed completly. I do not base myself on a wikipedia article. I use Wikipedia for definitions for controversial topics. That is not the same as using wikipedia for everything.

    Secondly, I don't read far right propaganda. Compared to the US I'm in the middle. You are supposedly a libertarian, that is far right. You are wrong about socialism, because you are basing socialism on a few types of socialism. Socialism is a bigger term, that's why all official sources define it that way.
    Uhh libertarian are not left and right......


  9. #89
    Gradualist

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    09-25-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    34,949
    Blog Entries
    6

    Re: Is North Korea a communistic State?

    So is this thread about how North Korea is communist or socialist because they are two different things.
    Last edited by TheDemSocialist; 07-01-11 at 02:27 PM.


  10. #90
    Gradualist

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    09-25-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    34,949
    Blog Entries
    6

    Re: Is North Korea a communistic State?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Ok, go ahead. Write that in this article George W. Bush - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    It will be interesting to see how long it lasts.
    Ok.

    Also, if you can just change Bush Article to that, then go ahead changing socialism article to your own homemade definition.
    ok.



    If you want to define something, then you can't just use your own homemade definition. I'm sorry.
    Im not using a "homemade definiton". Im using a definition which socialist's, political scientists, and academics agree upon what socialism is.

    In general wikipedia will use different dictionaries and also books for definition.
    I realize how wikipedia works.

    However, I can use dictionaries as well. Let's take a look at definition of socialism from Oxford Dictionaries Online
    And they also disagree with you. Read this
    Actually it would seem that they agree with me...
    Mine is jut worded different...






    Maybe you should send oxford dictionary a letter to tell them that their definition is a fifth grade definition. I'm sure they will agree with you and put in your homemade definition instead.
    Well saying ours are about basically the exact same thing then i guess they agree "with my homemade definition".
    What "my homemade defininon says":Socialism: (n.) 1. A theory or policy of social organization which aims at or advocates the ownership and control of the means of production, capital, land, property, etc., by the community as a whole, and their administration or distribution in the interests of all.
    What Oxford says: "a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."
    Pretty ****ing similar.
    Or how about we ask socialist themselves. How about my local party the Socialist Party of Kansas: Socialist Party of Kansas - FAQ



    You are funny. Maybe take a look in the mirror?
    Uh oh it seems that i just got internet pwned...


    It's not my definition. It's wikipedia and Oxford definition. You are the one making your own definition.
    Im not making up a definition for like the 6th time.






    Yes, but that is because it is not an academic source.
    Thank you for semi proving my point...

    Secondly the quality varies a lot from article to article. Articles that don't get visited very much, are articles with lower quality. Those are in general the articles you need in a paper. Therefore, you shouldn't use Wikipedia for school work.
    Or just for proof or a good citation.



    So Cuba is socialist, but North Korea is not. You must be ****ing kidding me.
    No im not..

    How can Cuba be socialist, they have private economy? 22% of the formal work force work in the private sector and even more if you include informal sector. I mean supposedly only 40% of the population work. They are just a regulated economy. You seem to define socialism as "country close to government take over, that I support"
    Well saying in Cuba all workers whether members of a union or not, have the right to participate in monthly worker assemblies, discussions and in the shaping of their workplace’s collective bargaining agreement. In Cuba no matter what you have a say in the workplace. You meet monthly to vote on how you believe the workplace should be ran. I must agree that Cuba does have quite the bureaucratic problem, the bureaucratic runs deep and slows the process down but they are a socialist country to an extent.

    Is Venezuela socialist as well?
    I would say they are getting their way there. So i would say yes they are becoming a true socialistic state.

    Is Sweden socialist?
    No. Just have a heavy public sector.





    Do you know anything about South America?
    Yes.

    There is only one country turning towards socialism, and that is Venezuela.
    Now this is were i call you just an utter idiot.
    Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, Brazil, Nicaragua, Argentina, and Peru.
    Bolivia Evo Morales has been elected and re elected. "Morales has nationalised natural resources and, with Bolivia's economic growth in the last four years higher than at any time in the last 30 years, Morales has used this to initiate social programmes for the poor, including free medical care, social security for new mothers and the elderly and a massive programme for literacy that includes payments to low-income families to make sure their children can attend school." Under Morales many factories have been turned over to the workers to literally run the factor themselves.
    In Ecuador the election of Rafael Correa led to a huge left turn. With massive social program spending to help the poor. The guaranteed rights to indigenous communities and other progressive measures such as same sex partnership rights through a new constitution.
    In Nicaragua, the re-election of former leader of the revolution Daniel Ortega in 2006 has also seen a number of social advances including the introduction of free healthcare and eradication of illiteracy through close collaboration with Cuba and Venezuela.
    Would you like to learn more?

    And Venezuela economy is in the gutter.
    Really the "gutter"?
    This report would defiantly like to beg to differ
    http://www.cepr.net/documents/public...la-2009-02.pdf

    They should have been the richest country in South America, because of all of their oil, but now soon Peru is richer than Venezuela and Chile is much richer than Venezuela. Not only that, but Venezuela was one of the richest countries in the world before they got democracy.


    Also Caracas (capital of Venezuela) is the most violent city in the world.
    Not the most violent but certainly is violent. How is this "socialists" fault? It has always been violent. But Venezuela recently created a new police force and crime in Caracas is down 10%.




    I'm sorry, have you ever been to China during the 1980s?
    No. Were you?

    In what way did they have anything to say?
    Under the cultural revolution and under the great leap forward under "peoples communes" democracy was widely accepted for workers to have meeting and make democratic decisions on what should be done and if they should accept the decision made by the communist party.

    Most people were farmers, similar to North Korea.
    So if your generally a country of farmers at the time your a socialist state?

    People could not vote, and they were not able to even decide over their own lives. They might have been placed somewhere to work. They were poor and got pretty much nothing for their work.
    I agree with some of your statement about Mao.


    In what way are they so different? Or is your knowledge about China similar to your knowledge about Venezuela?
    Well would you like to talk about China and Venezuela or how North Korea is supposedly communist which this is what the thread is about..


Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst ... 7891011 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •