View Poll Results: Is North Korea communistic?

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  • Yes

    15 50.00%
  • No

    10 33.33%
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Thread: Is North Korea a communistic State?

  1. #71
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    Re: Is North Korea a communistic State?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    I suggest you look into criticisms of totalitarianism theory. I also suggest you learn the history of totalitarianism theory, whose original purpose was to equate the USSR under Stalin with NAZI Germany under Hitler as a propaganda weapon in the Cold War.
    I suggest you stop bitching about the common usage of a term. And I would compare the two regimes with North Korea, as both states tried to exert massive control over their citizens, like few other regimes before or since.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    The Korean Communist Party hasn't existed since 1946; the ruling party is the Korean Workers' Party. And how do you know how much power the KWP has?
    I stand corrected; I fail to see how this affects my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    There has been speculation that the North Korean military leadership has significantly greater power than those in the KWP, and that Jung Il is actually overseen by the military leadership.
    Again, I don't see how this affects anything or makes the North Korean government any less repressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Certainly we can't corroborate this, but we also can't make assumptions either way regardless,as you and everyone else so very much love to do.
    I'm simply using totalitarianism as it is defined in the dictionary and the overwhelming mass of people who know what I'm talking about when I use the word.
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  2. #72
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    idea Re: Is North Korea a communistic State?


    Korean Workers Party

    Wasn't the ruling party in the USSR called the Communist Workers Party? Guess the Koreans just wanted their country's name there.

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    Re: Is North Korea a communistic State?

    As for the OP, I think that this answers his question best:

    We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.

    1984
    Last edited by DrunkenAsparagus; 06-30-11 at 07:23 PM.
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  4. #74
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    Re: Is North Korea a communistic State?



    Its economic base in the sense that the economy is nationalized is socialist.
    Well if you mean that the government owns it and the workers take direct orders from the government that is not much of socialism. How do the workers have a say in what is going on? How do the workers own the means of production?
    That is not socialism.

    There is no such thing as "Red Fascism". That's like saying "Capitalist Communism". It makes no sense whatsoever.
    Yes there is such thing as Red Fascism. People who hijack the name of socialism such as Stalin and warp it into something entirley other. Such as Stalin, and this awful North Korean regime. Sense when is socialism you take direct orders from the state and the workers have no say and do not own the means of production? How is that socialism? How is "communism" having a cult of personality around one man who is "god"? How is "communism" have a giant government tell you how to live your life? How is that at all communism or socialism?
    Red Fascism (Voline against totalitarianism)


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    Re: Is North Korea a communistic State?

    I like to call the North Koreans hard core corrupt Communists. Kim il-Sung and Kim Jong-il have take communism to a whole new level. I think they are some of history's most successful leaders.
    Last edited by Muffinz!; 06-30-11 at 10:39 PM.
    “They say that time changes things, but you actually have to change them yourself.” -Andy Warhol

  6. #76
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    Re: Is North Korea a communistic State?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Not in greedy humans at least. That doesn't mean his theories won't work.
    They will never work, because humans cannot live that way.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Is North Korea a communistic State?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Well if you mean that the government owns it and the workers take direct orders from the government that is not much of socialism. How do the workers have a say in what is going on? How do the workers own the means of production?
    That is not socialism.
    Democracy or having a say is not a requirement for socialism. Take a look at the definition at Wikipedia. It requires the means of production to be publicly owned. They are publicly owned in North Korea,

    Yes there is such thing as Red Fascism. People who hijack the name of socialism such as Stalin and warp it into something entirley other. Such as Stalin, and this awful North Korean regime. Sense when is socialism you take direct orders from the state and the workers have no say and do not own the means of production? How is that socialism? How is "communism" having a cult of personality around one man who is "god"? How is "communism" have a giant government tell you how to live your life? How is that at all communism or socialism?
    [url=http://www.katesharpleylibrary.net/dbrvxg]Red Fascism (Voline against totalitarianism)[/url
    Socialism has nothing to do with success. Your argument is, it is a hellhole, then it can't be socialist. That is wrong. Also, just because it doesn't fit into your type of socialism, doen not make it less socialist. There are many kinds of socialism.

    Red fascism is the same thing as state capitalism. It is just another word made up by socialist embarrassed about how bad some socialist countries are. In general the socialist strategy is to first pretend like the country is working and therefore a great example of socialism. That's what they did under Mao in 1970. Then if that fails, they will argue that it's not socialist. They will try to make up a new definition so they don't have to explain why it didn't work. That's what they did when they saw what failure Mao was.

  8. #78
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    Re: Is North Korea a communistic State?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Democracy or having a say is not a requirement for socialism. Take a look at the definition at Wikipedia.
    Wait! Wait! Hold it right there.
    First off Wikipedia is your primay source?
    That is your ends of knowledge on the topic of socialism?
    First off socialism is when the workers, own, control, and have a share in the means of production...
    That is what socialism is in the tiny bit nutshell. Now you can go to wikipedia and be all like well it says it has to be publicily owned. That is a tiny part of socialism.
    Worker own co-ops... Democratic workplace... Communes... Now tell me where you see that in North Korea?
    Socialism is a political system with the primary goals are: Work environments are owned and controlled by the workers (i.e., not privately owned). Democracy. Equality. Tell me where you see any of those in North Korea?

    It requires the means of production to be publicly owned.
    If you mean "publicly owned" by nationalized yes some things can be nationalized but the workers should also have a say in that workplace which is a huge part.

    They are publicly owned in North Korea,
    Yes but the workers are merely slaves of the state. Where is there say at their workplace?


    Socialism has nothing to do with success.
    Huh?

    Your argument is, it is a hellhole, then it can't be socialist.
    Uhh no, thats not my argument at all. My argument is based on having knowledge and knowing what socialism is, having a open mind, and being connected with reality. My argument goes beyond what the tube tells ya and your "wikipedia definition".

    That is wrong. Also, just because it doesn't fit into your type of socialism, doen not make it less socialist. There are many kinds of socialism.
    I agree there are many kinds of socialism. But North Korea just does not fit any type of socialism what so ever!

    Red fascism is the same thing as state capitalism. It is just another word made up by socialist embarrassed about how bad some socialist countries are.
    Naaa its a new left term that has caught on with the times and describes many fraud countries that openly call themselves Socialist republics, which have nothing in common with socialism and mainly use the term to take power...

    In general the socialist strategy is to first pretend like the country is working and therefore a great example of socialism.
    Ooooo teach me professor!

    That's what they did under Mao in 1970.
    Soo you wanna talk about Mao and the struggle there to implement communism?

    Then if that fails, they will argue that it's not socialist.
    Many people would argue that China did have a form of radical socialism under Mao and i would agree with them...

    They will try to make up a new definition so they don't have to explain why it didn't work. That's what they did when they saw what failure Mao was.
    Ahh yous sooo smart...


  9. #79
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    Re: Is North Korea a communistic State?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Wait! Wait! Hold it right there.
    First off Wikipedia is your primay source?
    Wikipedia is my source for definitions. You are certainly not my source of definition. You will see that socialist disagree about which definition is correct. Why should I pick one of them, when Wikipedia provides the most balanced definition?

    That is your ends of knowledge on the topic of socialism?
    No, I already answered that question. Why do feel the need to pretend like you don't know the answer? I use Wikipedia for definition. I do not use Wikipedia for all my knowledge and I never use youtube as you suggest. However, for definitions, especially a debated one like socialism. Then I use Wikipedia because they can be changed by everyone, including you.

    If you have evidence that the definition is wrong, then you can change it. The reason you don't like it, is because they got evidence while you don't.

    First off socialism is when the workers, own, control, and have a share in the means of production...
    That is what socialism is in the tiny bit nutshell. Now you can go to wikipedia and be all like well it says it has to be publicily owned. That is a tiny part of socialism.
    Worker own co-ops... Democratic workplace... Communes... Now tell me where you see that in North Korea?
    If you believe that is the definition and have evidence to back it up. Feel free to change Wikipedia. Right now, we are using the official definition, which do not require democracy, democratic workplaces or communes.

    What you are doing is trying to change the definition of socialism to the kind of socialism you support. Then you can exclude North Korea. However, your kind of socialism is only one kind of socialism. To be honest it sounds like you support Trotskyism. If Trotskyism was the same as socialism, then they would have named it socialism. But it is not. Socialism is a big term, and it includes things you don't like.


    Yes but the workers are merely slaves of the state. Where is there say at their workplace?
    They are not slaves. They get free goodies such as free education.


    Uhh no, thats not my argument at all. My argument is based on having knowledge and knowing what socialism is, having a open mind, and being connected with reality. My argument goes beyond what the tube tells ya and your "wikipedia definition".
    Yes, that is your argument. You are making your own definition of socialism, and defining bad socialist countries as red fascism. In fact, if for instance Soviet was confident that the people supported socialism, then they would have been democracies. People would have supported socialism if it actually works. If a country wants to fulfill your homemade definition, then they have to be successful.

    I agree there are many kinds of socialism. But North Korea just does not fit any type of socialism what so ever!
    That's weird, how come North Korea is mentioned over and over again in the article and other articles. It is part of the planned economies type of socialism.




    Many people would argue that China did have a form of radical socialism under Mao and i would agree with them...
    Really? In what way was North Korea so different from China? Do you think Chinese people had anything to say under Mao? Do you think they could control their work places? Do you think there was no hierarchies under Mao? Socialism in China under Mao and socialism in North Korea is very similar.

  10. #80
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    Re: Is North Korea a communistic State?

    I've said this before; but I'm still struck by the fact that some of the most impassioned critics of socialism seem to have the weakest grasp of it.
    Economic Left/Right: -7.25, Authoritarian/Libertarian:-7.13
    All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume. -Noam Chomsky

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