View Poll Results: Can Gay Marriage Bans Infringe on Religious Freedom?

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Thread: Can Gay Marriage Bans Infringe Upon Freedom of Religion?

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    Can Gay Marriage Bans Infringe Upon Freedom of Religion?

    Whenever the issues of gay marriage and the freedom of religion are discussed it is always in the context of whether allowing gay marriage will infringe on the beliefs of a church that may find it sinful. But with this thread I want to go in another direction.

    Growing up I attended a church that was a member of the United Church of Christ, one of the more liberal branches of Protestantism. A few years the UCC as an organization declared that it would recognize gay marriage and churches could perform them if they chose to do so. Yet I live in Illinois, a state that recognizes many rights to gay couples but still has a law that makes gay marriage illegal. So even if my minister wanted to have a wedding ceremony for a gay couple, the law would prohibit them.

    Can this be considered an infringement on my church's religious freedom?
    Last edited by Spaceman_Spiff; 06-27-11 at 03:02 AM.

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    Re: Can Gay Marriage Bans Infringe Upon Freedom of Religion?

    I mis-voted. It should have been "yes." Sorry.

    You can absolutely make a case for that. And hell, I think more accepting churches should go for it.

    Your religious believes dictate gays should be treated equally. I don't see why people whose religious believes dictate they shouldn't should trump that. Let the church decide.

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    Re: Can Gay Marriage Bans Infringe Upon Freedom of Religion?

    I can't think of a religion where being gay is accepted as part of the ceremony.

    Well... actually Paganism could qualify. Are there officially recognized Pagan churches in the U.S.? I don't know.

    Christianity does not have an ancient tradition of accepting homosexuals, let alone through marriage. I understand the United Church but they are modern so they would have a hard time proving precedent.

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    Re: Can Gay Marriage Bans Infringe Upon Freedom of Religion?

    No, gay marriage bans are not bans upon religious ceremonies, a gay couple can still have a marriage ceremony in a church, ban or no, but it's not legally recognised.
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    Re: Can Gay Marriage Bans Infringe Upon Freedom of Religion?

    I believe that same sex marriage bans impinge on religious freedoms of gays more than allowing SSM impinges on the religious freedoms of those against SSM for religious reasons.

    However, I would not use that as a major argument against same sex marriage bans, except as a counter argument when someone tries to bring up that marriage is a religious institution and/or how same sex marriage infringes upon their religion in some way.
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    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Can Gay Marriage Bans Infringe Upon Freedom of Religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    I can't think of a religion where being gay is accepted as part of the ceremony.

    Well... actually Paganism could qualify. Are there officially recognized Pagan churches in the U.S.? I don't know.

    Christianity does not have an ancient tradition of accepting homosexuals, let alone through marriage. I understand the United Church but they are modern so they would have a hard time proving precedent.
    I don't think it would matter. If it's just a matter of precident, well Protestants were here before Catholics.

    I think it's interesting, and I think with a good enough lawyer it could be a good case.

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    Re: Can Gay Marriage Bans Infringe Upon Freedom of Religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    No, gay marriage bans are not bans upon religious ceremonies, a gay couple can still have a marriage ceremony in a church, ban or no, but it's not legally recognised.
    spud is correct. A same-sex couple can get married in a church, but the government has no requirement to offer benefits to this couple. Consider this. If an opposite sex couple gets married in a church, but does not go through the legal processes that fulfill governmental requirements, the government would not consider them married, either. In many cases, the church acts as an agent of the state. Remember... a marriage is a legal contract that is signed. The religious part if separate.

    This is also why the argument that if SSM becomes legal, churches will be forced to recognize them is absurd.
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    Re: Can Gay Marriage Bans Infringe Upon Freedom of Religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Well... actually Paganism could qualify. Are there officially recognized Pagan churches in the U.S.? I don't know.
    Sure there are. I have friends ordained through the Universal Life Church.

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    Re: Can Gay Marriage Bans Infringe Upon Freedom of Religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceman_Spiff View Post
    Whenever the issues of gay marriage and the freedom of religion are discussed it is always in the context of whether allowing gay marriage will infringe on the beliefs of a church that may find it sinful. But with this thread I want to go in another direction.

    Growing up I attended a church that was a member of the United Church of Christ, one of the more liberal branches of Protestantism. A few years the UCC as an organization declared that it would recognize gay marriage and churches could perform them if they chose to do so. Yet I live in Illinois, a state that recognizes many rights to gay couples but still has a law that makes gay marriage illegal. So even if my minister wanted to have a wedding ceremony for a gay couple, the law would prohibit them.

    Can this be considered an infringement on my church's religious freedom?
    It might be an infringement, however the state still has a right to decide tax laws for marriage couples.
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    Re: Can Gay Marriage Bans Infringe Upon Freedom of Religion?

    No infringement. The church can still perform the marriage cerimony. They can still view them married from the eyes of the church. The government is under no obligation to recognize under the law any religious ceremony.

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