Why are many people grossed out by homosexuality?

People who beat and persecute gays may say that they're Christians, but they're not. Christ would never have condoned such behavior.

LuckyDan said:

Where in your link is the stat on homosexuals murdered by Christians?

I found this, but nothing related to anything at all in your post.

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Shepard's case is linked to the murderers being motivated by their Christian beliefs.

But sure. From January...
Christians Attempt To Burn Georgia Man Alive For Being Gay - The Gay Manifesto

Also, on the anecdotal note, the hate crime that occurred at my high school was related to the perpetrators' Evangelical Christian faith.

I also think it's intentionally avoidance to try to pretend it has nothing to do with religion - especially the Abrahamic ones.

Notice how the rates of religious motived and sexuality motived hate crimes are only a few points away from each other...

Also, more apologetics.

Pa. High Court Strikes Down Homosexual 'Hate Crimes' Law, Christian News
Religious Right Claims Hate-Crimes Law an Attack on Christianity | Right Wing Watch

LuckyDan said:

I like you, too, but I cannot agree that Christians absolutely beat and kill gays.

You post that as if churches send the faithful out every Sunday to commit murder. It just doesn't happen.

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Some Christians absolutely do.

I sincerely hope Jerry didn't mean ALL Muslims beat and kill gays. And my counter-claim was aimed in the same way. Which is to say, some people of these religions kill gay people because of their religion. It is not a big leap to make considering how loud and proud many Christians are to call homosexuality an abomination and disown their own children over it.

LuckyDan said:

I like you, too, but I cannot agree that Christians absolutely beat and kill gays.

You post that as if churches send the faithful out every Sunday to commit murder. It just doesn't happen.

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And they call us the hate mongers.

You gays in this country don't even know how good you have it. You have nothing to complain about. Not one goddamn thing. Nothing.

LuckyDan said:

He didn't actually say that either, did He?

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Nope, which is why I made it quite clear that I was paraphrasing it. Whereas the people who say "love the sinner, hate the sin" to justify their own self-righteousness make no such effort to let people know that that is nowhere to be found in their religious text...usually because the people saying it don't know it themselves.

And forgive does not mean ignore.

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Jesus got very angry with his followers for criticizing the sins of others when they were sinners themselves.

Jerry said:

And they call us the hate mongers.

You gays in this country don't even know how good you have it. You have nothing to complain about. Not one goddamn thing. Nothing.

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Huh? I'm not gay. I'm just a human being.

When hate crimes against gays are still happening every single day and 44 of the states don't recognize their rights, I don't think it's good enough.

I think they'd be grossed out by anybody if all they thought about was what they do behind closed doors. Viewing people as sexual beings first and foremost isn't normal, but that's what people do to LGBT.

MistressNomad said:

Shepard's case is linked to the murderers being motivated by their Christian beliefs.

But sure. From January...
Christians Attempt To Burn Georgia Man Alive For Being Gay - The Gay Manifesto

Also, on the anecdotal note, the hate crime that occurred at my high school was related to the perpetrators' Evangelical Christian faith.

I also think it's intentionally avoidance to try to pretend it has nothing to do with religion - especially the Abrahamic ones.

Notice how the rates of religious motived and sexuality motived hate crimes are only a few points away from each other...

Also, more apologetics.

Pa. High Court Strikes Down Homosexual 'Hate Crimes' Law, Christian News
Religious Right Claims Hate-Crimes Law an Attack on Christianity | Right Wing Watch

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Mistress, I have all the sympathy in the world for those who are victimized this way, but if you truly believe that Christians just itch and burn to do physical harm to gays, you need to get to know more Christians.

I found two things interesting from your first link. This:

“This is the first time I’ve dealt with anything of this nature in 16 years,” said Capt. Shane Taylor of the Carroll County Sheriff’s Office

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If true, it speaks to the rarity of the crime reported, doesn't it?

And then the embedded hotlink to "registered Christian hate groups" as if churches must register with the government somehow for being hateful.

From your second link:

Eleven members of a Christian evangelist group called Repent America were arrested and charged under the expanded "ethnic intimidation" law in 2004 for picketing at a Philadelphia event for homosexuals.

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Picketing? It's a long damn walk from picketing to murder, don't you agree?

BDBoop said:

I think they'd be grossed out by anybody if all they thought about was what they do behind closed doors. Viewing people as sexual beings first and foremost isn't normal, but that's what people do to LGBT.

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BD, isn't LGBT their chosen label? And aren't those who choose a letter for themselves identifying themselves sexually, "first and foremost?"

LuckyDan said:

Mistress, I have all the sympathy in the world for those who are victimized this way, but if you truly believe that Christians just itch and burn to do physical harm to gays, you need to get to know more Christians.

I found two things interesting from your first link. This:

If true, it speaks to the rarity of the crime reported, doesn't it?

And then the embedded hotlink to "registered Christian hate groups" as if churches must register with the government somehow for being hateful.

From your second link:

Picketing? It's a long damn walk from picketing to murder, don't you agree?

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I don't. I'm simply saying it happens. And statistically it happens every day. Multiple times a day. More than that depending on what estimate of unreported crimes you take.

I live in America. I know a lot of Christians - they're everywhere. :lol: And as far as I'm aware, none of them have ever committed a hate crime against a gay person. I'm not trying to claim this is a majority, a plurality, or even a very significant minority. It clearly isn't.

I'd be curious to know if Capt. Taylor's town had hate crime legislation in the recent past. Several states didn't which would obviously tend to truncate a hate crime investigation. I would also wonder how many crimes go unreported. But I could fathom it - in a smaller town it's not hard to believe statistically. This is a huge country.

I absolutely agree the picketers were wrongly charged - and their charges were later dropped. Dropping hate crime legislation WITH IT, though, was the wrong move. They never qualified under the definition of a hate crime in the first place, so it wasn't a problem with the law - it was a problem with the enforcement.

MistressNomad said:

Huh? I'm not gay. I'm just a human being.

When hate crimes against gays are still happening every single day and 44 of the states don't recognize their rights, I don't think it's good enough.

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1: Hate Crime legislation needs to be taken completely off the books. If someone murdered your ass, it's because they hated you. Nuf said.

2: Crime will never be 100% abolished, but the best way to reduce it is to free up personal ownership and concealed carry of firearms; the Left opposes this, which necessarily means the Left is ok with the 'hate crimes' you mentioned continuing. It's irrational for the Left to accuse Christian Conservatives of being responcable for crimes against gays when we're the one's who wanted to arm those gays so it wouldn't happen in the first place.

3: 'Gay'Rights' is just a tool for class warfare. Gays have every civil right heteros have, no exceptions. There never was gay-slavery. There never were gay-oly fountains, bus seating, or gay-only schools. Gays didn't have it that bad to begin with, and it's heaven now. Gays have nothing to complain about.

4: In France, for example, most Civil Unions are of hetero couples. There never was any prohibition on sexual orientation for gays to point to and claim discrimination. Heteros ever had the right to marry someone of the same-sex for gays to point to and claim second-class status or discrimination.

5: Gays don't care about what marriage is for, they're only in it for the money and a feeling of belonging, when in fact they never will be the same as heteros.

6: Heteros seem to be in the marriage business for the exact same reasons, so **** everyone, a pox on both your houses. The state of Marriage today evidences where we are in the Cycle of Democracy, in that we're only concerned with voting ourselves more money.

LuckyDan said:

BD, isn't LGBT their chosen label? And aren't those who choose a letter for themselves identifying themselves sexually, "first and foremost?"

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I'll have to think about that. I know what you're saying, but I also know that when people say they're straight, nobody automatically slaps a label on them, makes them all about their lean, and gets all squicked out.

LuckyDan said:

BD, isn't LGBT their chosen label? And aren't those who choose a letter for themselves identifying themselves sexually, "first and foremost?"

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IMO part of the public relations problem gays have is in being lumped together with tranys.

Sure, there are many perfectly respectable transsexuals, but the public doesn't notice/remember them because they are ordinary people, the bland into life.

What people remember and generally associate with tranys are big herry men with 5 o-clock shadows and deep voices, badly putting on way to much makeup and gody outfits while channeling their inner diva.

MistressNomad said:

I don't. I'm simply saying it happens. And statistically it happens every day. Multiple times a day. More than that depending on what estimate of unreported crimes you take.

I live in America. I know a lot of Christians - they're everywhere. :lol: And as far as I'm aware, none of them have ever committed a hate crime against a gay person. I'm not trying to claim this is a majority, a plurality, or even a very significant minority. It clearly isn't.

I'd be curious to know if Capt. Taylor's town had hate crime legislation in the recent past. Several states didn't which would obviously tend to truncate a hate crime investigation. I would also wonder how many crimes go unreported. But I could fathom it - in a smaller town it's not hard to believe statistically. This is a huge country.

I absolutely agree the picketers were wrongly charged - and their charges were later dropped. Dropping hate crime legislation WITH IT, though, was the wrong move. They never qualified under the definition of a hate crime in the first place, so it wasn't a problem with the law - it was a problem with the enforcement.

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The victim in your first link was a victim because someone threw a rock through his window and set his house on fire. The criminals became criminals when the rock broke the glass and the fire took to the house. I don't give a rat's ass about their motivation or about the victim's sex life. They committed a crime and should be subject to no more and no less punishment than if they had perpetrated the same crime against Pat freakin Robertson.

LuckyDan said:

BD, isn't LGBT their chosen label? And aren't those who choose a letter for themselves identifying themselves sexually, "first and foremost?"

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Well, I think that depends. I think you have a point, and I think there are certainly people in the LGBT community who very intentionally put their sexuality on the table. But sexuality is also an indication of romantic attraction.

And I also think it's unavoidable. The issue is discrimination, and the discrimination this cause is addressing is discrimination aimed at people of a certain sexuality. In order to fight for their cause, they have to identify the cause.

Goshin said:

.... that's porn and doesn't have much to do with lesbians-in-reality....

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How could you argue that... that's like saying male on male porn doesn't have much to do with reality either.

BDBoop said:

I'll have to think about that. I know what you're saying, but I also know that when people say they're straight, nobody automatically slaps a label on them, makes them all about their lean, and gets all squicked out.

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You haven't followed my discussions with CT, I take it?

Kidding. Kidding.

LuckyDan said:

BD, isn't LGBT their chosen label? And aren't those who choose a letter for themselves identifying themselves sexually, "first and foremost?"

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No, it's not. Being a person who is either Lesbian, Gay, Bi, or Transgender doesn't make that all of who you are.

LuckyDan said:

The victim in your first link was a victim because someome threw a rock through his window and set his house on fire. The criminals became criminals when the rock broke the glass and the fire took to the house. I don't give a rat's ass about their motivation or about the victim's sex life. They committed a crime and should be subject to no more and no less punishment than if they had perpetrated the same crime against Pat freakin Robertson.

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True. Honestly, I think hate crime legislation is most useful for simply keep statistics about how often hate crimes occur. The motivational factor of a hate crime can certainly be covered to the degree it needs to be for sentencing by other categories that have nothing to do with hate crimes. Intent, pre-meditated, etc. I don't really think the source of that matters in the sentencing, but it's good for us to know how much it happens.

LuckyDan said:

True. The girls in lez porn may be bi, but they sure don't look like the lesbians I see IRL.

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You might be surprised to know who around you is actually homosexual and who isn't...

MistressNomad said:

I don't. I'm simply saying it happens. And statistically it happens every day. Multiple times a day. More than that depending on what estimate of unreported crimes you take.

I live in America. I know a lot of Christians - they're everywhere. :lol: And as far as I'm aware, none of them have ever committed a hate crime against a gay person. I'm not trying to claim this is a majority, a plurality, or even a very significant minority. It clearly isn't.

I'd be curious to know if Capt. Taylor's town had hate crime legislation in the recent past. Several states didn't which would obviously tend to truncate a hate crime investigation. I would also wonder how many crimes go unreported. But I could fathom it - in a smaller town it's not hard to believe statistically. This is a huge country.

I absolutely agree the picketers were wrongly charged - and their charges were later dropped. Dropping hate crime legislation WITH IT, though, was the wrong move. They never qualified under the definition of a hate crime in the first place, so it wasn't a problem with the law - it was a problem with the enforcement.

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The absence of hate-crime legislation doesn't mean you can go beat the **** out of someone and get away with it.

Hate-crime legislation simply increases the penalty for an existing crime if it can be proven that the crime was motivated by hatred of that class.

Murder is murder is murder. Assault is assault is assault. You can't claim equality and a special status for prosecution purposes at the same time.

The perp's motives do not effect the vic's actions after the fact, or whether the vic reports the crime or not.

I'm heterosexual and I don't really. I mean, I'm not attracted to it, obviously, but I can definitely imagine grosser things.

Jerry said:

The absence of hate-crime legislation doesn't mean you can go beat the **** out of someone and get away with it.

Hate-crime legislation simply increases the penalty for an existing crime if it can be proven that the crime was motivated by hatred of that class.

Murder is murder is murder. Assault is assault is assault. The perp's motives do not effect the vic's actions after the fact, or whether the vic reports the crime or not.

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Ok. There's a case to be made for that. I don't have a solid opinion on it.

I was simply proving that it happens - which you denied. The fact that it's categorized that way is handy for that, and for letting us know how big of a problem it is.

MistressNomad said:

Ok. There's a case to be made for that. I don't have a solid opinion on it.

I was simply proving that it happens - which you denied. The fact that it's categorized that way is handy for that, and for letting us know how big of a problem it is.

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Every type crime that exists, occurs in America.

That doesn't mean Americans, as a cultural norm, hunt and execute gays.

You found criminals who the public rejects. You did not prove that the general American populace seeks gays out for persecution. You found exceptions, and exceptions only prove rules. You proved my argument for me.