View Poll Results: What if a Minister refuses to perform gay ceremony?

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  • Should be allowed to refuse.

    92 98.92%
  • Should be forced to perform.

    0 0%
  • Should be stripped of license.

    1 1.08%
  • Should be arrested.

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Thread: What if a Minister refuses to perform a gay wedding ceremony?

  1. #171
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    Re: What if a Minister refuses to perform a gay wedding ceremony?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    The principles are the same, whatever the context. You're saying no medical decisions can involve religion? Shoot, look at end of life decisions, faith often plays a big role and it's a lot more serious that circumcision.
    No, actually the principle is different. The problem with comparing two unlike things is that they are...different.
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    Re: What if a Minister refuses to perform a gay wedding ceremony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    then why havent they already lost thier credibility? its not like this will be the first or even biggest thing churches have discriminated against.
    their credibllity only matters to people that believe in them and for the most part those people arent going anywhere
    I'd have to say that a lot of religious institutions and even the institution of religion itself is losing credibility. Stories in scripture are being proven false. Old morality is showing that it's outdated and not applicable. Only three of the ten commandments have any correlation in US law (stealing, murdering, and bearing false witness - at least under oath). Atheism, as a movement, is growing, and even just a more casual take on religion is becoming more and more popular. How many Christians only go to church on Christmas? Reform Judaism, a much more relaxed take on the faith, is the most populous Jewish denomination in the world, and especially in the United States. Despite the loud yelling by extremists, religion has lost a lot of credibility.

    Also, the most extreme individual institutions are already ostracized. Does anyone actually defend the Westboro guys? A church that loudly refuses to marry gays will likely be lumped into the same category as them. Of course, why a gay couple would want to be married in a church that would refuse them is beyond me. I don't actually see this conflict coming up too often.
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  3. #173
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    Re: What if a Minister refuses to perform a gay wedding ceremony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Also, the most extreme individual institutions are already ostracized. Does anyone actually defend the Westboro guys? A church that loudly refuses to marry gays will likely be lumped into the same category as them. Of course, why a gay couple would want to be married in a church that would refuse them is beyond me. I don't actually see this conflict coming up too often.
    Oh yeah, and don't forget the fallout the Catholic church is facing over the whole raping kids thing. That cost 'em a lot of cred.
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  4. #174
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    Re: What if a Minister refuses to perform a gay wedding ceremony?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    The principles are the same, whatever the context. You're saying no medical decisions can involve religion? Shoot, look at end of life decisions, faith often plays a big role and it's a lot more serious that circumcision.
    Faith plays a role in what decision is made, in an end of life decision, not in who gets to determine that decision legally or whether someone should be allowed to ignore that person's decision simply because they don't approve of the relationship because of their religious beliefs.

    It is about what role faith/religion plays in the point being discussed and how, specifically, denying a certain right/thing will have on a person's ability to still practice their religion or not have to violate their religious beliefs for some social reason.

    Church/clergy being forced to perform a religious ceremony for anyone/any couple that would violate religious beliefs is a clear violation of the 1st Amendment. And forcing such a thing does not actually serve a valid purpose or protect anyone, since we have people specifically designated by the state that can sign the legal marriage license, who cannot discriminate.

    Law banning circumcisions does prevent a person from practicing their faith, but that is currently being weighed against whether that right should be more important than protecting a child from an unnecessary medical procedure. I personally think the bans on circumcisions are stupid and the 1st Amendment should come out on top, in this case.

    But not all religious ideas are protected under the 1st Amendment. Individuals cannot claim that they have a right to marry girls under a certain age in order to practice their religious beliefs if it is against the law to do so. People cannot refuse to do their job based on an objection to something that is required by that job for them to do based on their religious beliefs. A person cannot claim that the Bible instructs them to kill homosexuals or that the Koran instructs them to kill unmarried women who are not virgins, for whatever reason, and actually be protected by the 1st Amendment. In many cases, a person's personal religious beliefs will be weighed against other people's rights.
    Last edited by roguenuke; 06-28-11 at 02:27 AM.
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  5. #175
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    Re: What if a Minister refuses to perform a gay wedding ceremony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I'd have to say that a lot of religious institutions and even the institution of religion itself is losing credibility. Stories in scripture are being proven false. Old morality is showing that it's outdated and not applicable. Only three of the ten commandments have any correlation in US law (stealing, murdering, and bearing false witness - at least under oath). Atheism, as a movement, is growing, and even just a more casual take on religion is becoming more and more popular. How many Christians only go to church on Christmas? Reform Judaism, a much more relaxed take on the faith, is the most populous Jewish denomination in the world, and especially in the United States. Despite the loud yelling by extremists, religion has lost a lot of credibility.

    Also, the most extreme individual institutions are already ostracized. Does anyone actually defend the Westboro guys? A church that loudly refuses to marry gays will likely be lumped into the same category as them. Of course, why a gay couple would want to be married in a church that would refuse them is beyond me. I don't actually see this conflict coming up too often.
    hmmm its not that i disagree i have to say it different to be more clear. i dont think they are losing credibility in the sense that there are lots of people that ONCE thought them credible during adulthood and now do not.

    They are however not GAINING followers at the same rate they used too which makes the credibility seem like it is shrinking but I think its more a matter of it dying out and not being replenished, I dont think lots of adults are LEAVING religion.

    Is that more clear? IDK Im having trouble explaining it.
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    Re: What if a Minister refuses to perform a gay wedding ceremony?

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    Good grief, Charlie Brown. Sulk much?
    no sulking. It might very well be good for our churches - particularly the Catholic Church might start extending her doctrine a bit more thoroughly.
    Last edited by cpwill; 06-28-11 at 08:28 AM.

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    Re: What if a Minister refuses to perform a gay wedding ceremony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, they won't. They get to choose who they marry among hetrosexuals now, with no fear of losing a license.
    and have not yet run up against an interest group who will bring the pressure to bear on them for it. they are exercising state function, and they it will be a relatively easy argument to make - the logic runs along the same lines as the "Gay Marriage Compromise" thread proposed elsewhere.

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    Re: What if a Minister refuses to perform a gay wedding ceremony?

    Are they forced to perform other kinds of weddings or can you just get a different guy? Why would you want to force someone to do something they do not want to do other than malice? Personally I would want a happy preacher.
    Thank you

  9. #179
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    Re: What if a Minister refuses to perform a gay wedding ceremony?

    what if a Minister refuses to perform gay ceremony?

    find another one who will happily perform it.

    simple.
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    Re: What if a Minister refuses to perform a gay wedding ceremony?

    Quote Originally Posted by SPC View Post
    With Gay marriage now being made legal in 6 states, what should be the reaction to a minister refusing to perform the ceremony?
    Legally? None. 1st amendment.

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