View Poll Results: What if a Minister refuses to perform gay ceremony?

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  • Should be allowed to refuse.

    92 98.92%
  • Should be forced to perform.

    0 0%
  • Should be stripped of license.

    1 1.08%
  • Should be arrested.

    0 0%
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Thread: What if a Minister refuses to perform a gay wedding ceremony?

  1. #141
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    Re: What if a Minister refuses to perform a gay wedding ceremony?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    and the inevitable is that churches will face the choice between either marrying homosexuals, or losing their license. It's not a scare tactic - it's simply the direction of travel.
    Slippery slope, not a logical argument. It is very plausible, and likely that a court will rule that churches have a right to discriminate on religious bounds when preforming a religious ceremony, even if there is a legal component involved, which separates it from other services where they aren't allowed to discriminate like adoption, in which they aren't preforming a religious ceremony.
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  2. #142
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    Re: What if a Minister refuses to perform a gay wedding ceremony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Slippery slope, not a logical argument. It is very plausible, and likely that a court will rule that churches have a right to discriminate on religious bounds when preforming a religious ceremony, even if there is a legal component involved, which separates it from other services where they aren't allowed to discriminate like adoption, in which they aren't preforming a religious ceremony.
    I agree. Nobody should be forcing churches to go against their belief system if they aren't putting people in danger.

  3. #143
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    Re: What if a Minister refuses to perform a gay wedding ceremony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Slippery slope, not a logical argument.
    Hubert Humphrey: "If the Civil Rights Act leads to Racial Quotas I will eat my hat."

    this isn't a "slippery slope" argument - it's simply pointing out the nature of the groups involved, the legal vulnerabilities, the steps already taken, and the likely destination. this isn't fear-mongering, it's history.

    It is very plausible, and likely that a court will rule that churches have a right to discriminate on religious bounds when preforming a religious ceremony, even if there is a legal component involved, which separates it from other services where they aren't allowed to discriminate like adoption, in which they aren't preforming a religious ceremony.
    you are correct to note that no one will deny them the right to perform the religious ceremony. they will deny them the right to perform the legal one if they choose not to wed homosexual couples - and they will likely do the same with adoption.

    We already have legal precedent for not letting Christian dating services refuse service to homosexuals - why should Christian marriage services be any different, given that they are operating as agents of the state?

  4. #144
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    Re: What if a Minister refuses to perform a gay wedding ceremony?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    You oppose the spread of religion? By what means should the spreading of religion be stemmed? I believed your claim until I read that. You sure your "vigorous opposition" is not just a case of political expediency?
    I am completely opposed to the spread of religion. You have asked how I think it should be stopped. You think I meant that legal measures should be put in place to prevent the spread of religion. I don't. Nothing should be done. Nothing legislatively, that is. For the sake of freedom, I am resigned to the continued existence of religion. That was the point of me mentioning my opposition to religion, and I thought that would be clear from the context. I think Ludahai, the devout conservative Catholic, understood it. He 'liked' my post, in any event. Thanks Ludahai!


    Hummm, why would something so devoid of substance illicit such a pissy, ideologue response from you? Seems even raising the question about people's opinons pisses you off. What is the mindless far left so worried about?
    Why would I say that creating fear was a tactic of the religious right's leadership to manipulate it's ignorant followers? Because that is exactly what it is. The religious right does piss me off. They lie in order to manipulate. I think this should be pointed out, vigorously, when it is done. When it is pointed out, they repeat the lie ever more emphatically. Their ignorant followers follow suit. This pisses me off, too. So, when you ask what I am worried about, it is their followers believing the lies they are told. They do this often. Believe things that have no substance or basis, that is.
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  5. #145
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    Re: What if a Minister refuses to perform a gay wedding ceremony?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    well, and it is warranted - we are already seeing moves in this direction.



    leaving aside the dispute over what you call "equal gay rights" - the first amendment absolutely will have it's enforcement changed over this issue in the future. already we have seen that the right to association (which is part of the first amendment) can fall before the homosexual demand for Acceptance. Dating sites are forced to match homosexual couples, and pushes abroad to force Christian adoption agencies to treat homosexual couples the same as heterosexual married couples have given rise to similar movements here.

    marriage will be declared to be a state function (which it already is), and it will be argued that those entrusted with carrying out state duties are not allowed to discriminate. Ministers and churches will be told to either start marrying homosexual couples, or lose their ability to officially wed people at all. You start with adoption, then with employment, and you work your way up; and slowly the church's right of association falls before the demands of the Accept Me crowd. We still have all of the "Civil Rights" organizations decades after they have achieved the changes in law that they were founded to effect. Do you think that the homosexual advocacy movement will disappear simply because they succeed in having some states marry them? No, their organizations will continue to exist, and they will be in need of new justifications for their activism.

    Everyone now votes in favor of option #1. I am reminded of someone swearing up and down that if the Civil Rights Act led to racial quota's, he would eat his hat.
    thanks for all those examples that have nothing to do with us losing the 1st and RELIGION being infringed on.
    also there are no legal racial "quotas"

    Smart objective people simply will not fall for these illogical scare tactics, not reason to because they no logically support.
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  6. #146
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    Re: What if a Minister refuses to perform a gay wedding ceremony?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no, they will simply lose their licenses if they do not.
    Good grief, Charlie Brown. Sulk much?

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    Re: What if a Minister refuses to perform a gay wedding ceremony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Panzies is not what we would call right wingers. We have much more entertaining names for them. I would tell you what those names are, but I would get kicked out of the gay mafia if I did.
    You're a member of the gay mafia?
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  8. #148
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: What if a Minister refuses to perform a gay wedding ceremony?

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    Good grief, Charlie Brown. Sulk much?
    yep some simply want to scare the sheep and others imply don't understand religion is protected and those protections arent going anywhere.

    Only time religion is not protected is when it is involves itself in Nonreligious matters and thats how it should be.
    St. Micheal's hospital doesn't get to kick people out of they ER if they are gay or of a different religion.
    Churches being forced to marry gays is a scare tactic, its simply a denial of common sense.
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    Re: What if a Minister refuses to perform a gay wedding ceremony?

    I stepped out for the night, but it looks like we had a lot of interesting debate while I was gone.

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    Re: What if a Minister refuses to perform a gay wedding ceremony?

    Quote Originally Posted by SPC View Post
    I stepped out for the night, but it looks like we had a lot of interesting debate while I was gone.
    Oh, sure! I can quit anytime I want, too. I went to my daughters for the weekend, and didn't borrow her laptop to check in because I'M NOT ADDICTED!!!

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