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I'm proud to be an American.
It's astonishing the lengths you will go to, to avoid admitting that America is at least a pretty good country and those who live here have reason to feel pleasure/satisfaction (ie pride of association) that they do.
I know that everybody here has their differences and that we rarely all agree on something, but as it is, do you think that America is a wonderful country and are you proud to be an American?
I, for what it's worth, am proud to be an American.
That is the point. There is a certain level of societal collapse at which it doesn't help. Interventionism at that level of dysfunction is a band-aid over a bullet hole. Same reason I think our cycle with Iraq is so stupid - it's the same concept on a deeper scale.
They need to do this themselves. Notice how the Arab Spring has hit the least or not at all in the countries in which we intervened in beforehand, or have been involved in an on-going hat change with their government, and yet their circumstances are no better.
Oh look! You've got it!
Me being American is a coincidence. Had I created America, that wouldn't be the case, but I didn't.
How can I despise myself if my criticism is aimed towards something I don't identify with? Hmmm...
And like I said like I said, everything else I've reading contradicts it rather heavily. Still looking into it.
Good for you. I think that's silly. I've told you why. You can't tell me why not.
I have a fundamentally different idea of what patriotism means, which has nothing to do with any definition of pride. Patriotism isn't repugnant to me. You simply insist pride is part of the definition.
Well then that's just you splitting microscopic hairs.
There is no meaningful difference between national pride and patriotism. You can't love a country and be willing to sacrifice for it (de: patriotism) in the utter absence of national pride. In fact, I don't see how you can feel patriotism while merely acknowledging the accomplishments of certain people, and not feeling association with the idea of country. It's not possible, and I highly doubt you'll find anyone who feels patriotic that agrees.
So either they're all wrong, or you are. I'm going with the latter.
Ah. So if you don't get it, it doesn't exist, and if you don't understand the difference, there isn't one. Got it.
Explain to me how you can be a patriot in the utter, complete absence of national pride.
I am not proud of the fact that I happened to be born in America, no.
Define patriot.Explain to me how you can be a patriot in the utter, complete absence of national pride.
Who says he hasn't already done that?Then maybe you should either take ownership of being an American, and ask yourself what you can do for your country?
Explain to me how you can be a patriot in the utter, complete absence of national pride.
As historian John J. Dwyer notes, nationalism is a degenerate impostor of patriotism. "The patriot says, `I love my country,’ works for its good, and defends it if necessary — against enemies within and without,"
While people everywhere are fundamentally the same, there is an evolution in our cultures that is different in different parts of the world.
There are certain aspects of the "American" evolution that are very valuable and very important. I've touched on them - our unmitigated passion, the extent of our freedom of speech, and on a social level our friendliness and helpfulness. I've yet to find anywhere else on earth where any of those things are challenged from taking America off its thrown. There's an argument to be made this is another reason I chose to come back, though it was a more subliminal one.
I believe in those things as a tool of how to make our society better. And I believe they can be very successful. A more accurate description of those things, to me, would be appreciation, responsibility, and a certain degree of intellectual awe and curiosity. But pride? No. I didn't make it that way, and if we're using the association definition (which I find flawed) I am not necessarily proud of the way we're using it. I am proud, however, of my own part in bringing that out in others, which has manifested itself in a couple of fairly significant ways, for a small fish like me.
I'd consider myself a patriot. I'm very dedicated to examining and continuing those qualities, and I take the well-being of my fellow countrymen pretty seriously.Pride is not necessary to do any of those things.
Nor does it necessarily mean I have to think this is the best place on earth. I don't. And the reason that is so disappointing is because we very easily could be, with the above mentioned qualities that Americans share. My belief in those qualities is what makes me a patriot. But my patriotism is conditional. I'll keep going with that for as long as it exists in a form that I think can be worked with. If that ends, then I'm gone. I am not inherently commited to the piece of dirt. I'm commited to a characteristic of humanity that seems to be stronger in America than elsewhere.
Then maybe you should either take ownership of being an American, and ask yourself what you can do for your country?
Patriotism vs. Nationalism | Connor's Conundrums
That's what patriotism means to me. One doesn't need to be a proud American to love America, any more than one needs to have white pride to be thankful for being white (thinking of Louis CK here).
Wait, wait, wait....so now you DO believe in the possibility of American exceptionalism? After decrying that mindset as an evil consequence of excessive pride? That contradicts just about everything you've said.
Most of this is just another go-'round of what I've said a hundred times before, so I'll skip to the bottom.
No. And the only way you could reach that conclusion is to completely ignore everything else I said, including in the very same post. It isn't due to us being American. It's just a particular cultural evolution that has taken place in America moreso than other places. All by itself, it means nothing. In fact, it could be a perfect breeding ground for every sort of social atrocity imaginable. But if properly nurtured, it could also be a great foundation.
America has a very unbalanced evolution. This has nothing to do with anything special about the dirt itself. It's just an outgrowth of conditions.
this thread is the same as a global warming thread, an abortion thread, and many others.
the liberals side with the pessimistic side of worldview. they blame america and condemn america.
it's a great thread, though....regardless of the fact that no minds will be changed. it proves a lot.
it proves the liberal mentality to be treasonous to the very principles which a nation is defined.
but it is a worthless discussion. liberals will stand against this country, regardless of the life this
country has blessed them with.
It's almost impressive how you manage to weave such compact knots of nonsense.
They absolutely are. American asylum seekers have a unique narrative. Nowhere else are you an American asylum seeker besides America. In no other country do immigrants relate to Ellis Island. It's a fundamentally different story. American English is distinct from Australian English and British English. Also unique. You not caring enough to notice does not preclude their uniqueness.
...and a good many of those people happened to believe in that mythological entity, and were proud of it.
It's perfectly rational to feel pride by association. Why do you think people feel proud of their respective sports teams when they make progress?
You're right. It's a socialist dictatorship. Which is what I said. If you want to call it a communist dictatorship, go ahead. I don't particularly care to argue the difference right now. Also, when Raul announced a pay raise a few years back, he said it was to rewards those who "defended socialism." Hmm....
Saying a nation is "more altruistic" for giving a larger percentage of its GDP is like saying the nation that lost a higher proportion of its population during a war was more in-the-right. We give much more in real terms.
Besides, Cuban foreign aid is geared towards its Bolivarian allies, and what it terms "anti-colonialism." Aside from that, it's mostly their international medical brigades doing PR.
Many of the Cuban doctors sent abroad actually defect. That should tell you something.
Again, not sure how this precludes me from feeling pride.
I'm sorry that having no innate rights in reality hurts your world view. Seems like you feel rather attached to something that doesn't exist.
Maybe that's your substitute for religious faith, eh? ALL HAIL THE CHURCH OF ANARCHO-SOCIALISM! That's what you are, right?
So let me get this straight...you live in a nation that, according to you, is not only the number one sponsor of state terrorism in the world,
but fundamentally illegitimate...
yet you persist in living here and paying taxes (which, to you, should be blood money)... and your excuse is that you want to butcher the cow you're milking? Take note --this is why people of your ilk are ridiculed. Actually, I feel pity towards you.