lewstherin
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2011
- Messages
- 719
- Reaction score
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- Location
- Indianapolis, IN
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Independent
no ego is necessary when it comes to things that are handed to you at birth.
ego is inherent.
no ego is necessary when it comes to things that are handed to you at birth.
No. As other have said, why would I be proud of the chunk of dirt I happened to be born on? Whatever I make have done towards the end of having a positive impact on the place I live, I could have done that anywhere.
In addition, I am often tempted to be ashamed of the way my country acts.
There's absolutely no sense in taking pride in which nation-state I happened to have been born in, a random quirk of circumstance, in which I had no part, whatsoever. While we're on the subject, nation-states are fundamentally illegitimate institutions, and, therefore, shouldn't exist.
This is so true and you sir being from eastern Europe would know. That said welcome to America, there will always be those who feel empty and ungrateful for the circumstance they have been placed in or earned, it's just human nature.I really don't understand comments like this.
Having been born in and lived in eastern Europe, I almost can't help but be proud of this country. For all its faults, this is a great place to live with a rich and altruistic history -- sure it's done some pretty despicable things. But what country hasn't? I like the United States. I'm proud to live in a place with such a Constitution -- a place that supports freedom in word and in spirit, if not always in deed. And you, you who have had the fortune of being born here from the beginning of your lives? I would think you'd be even more proud than I am.
I hope you're at least thankful. Trust me, it could be a lot worse than this.
I am with ya on this.I'm proud of my country, although I'm not always proud of what my government has done in her name.
I really don't understand comments like this.
Having been born in and lived in eastern Europe, I almost can't help but be proud of this country. For all its faults, this is a great place to live with a rich and altruistic history -- sure it's done some pretty despicable things. But what country hasn't? I like the United States. I'm proud to live in a place with such a Constitution -- a place that supports freedom in word and in spirit, if not always in deed. And you, you who have had the fortune of being born here from the beginning of your lives? I would think you'd be even more proud than I am.
I hope you're at least thankful. Trust me, it could be a lot worse than this.
Having pride in your country for those born into this land, well it comes naturally you have it but you just don't know yet. Trust me when the time comes your pride will show, remember blood is always thicker than water.I love my country. I am thankful and grateful for being an American. But I believe pride in something that was handed to me at birth, a simple luck of the draw, doesn't make sense. Something that was given to you is something that doesn't warrant any pride whatsoever.
Being proud to be an American really doesn't make any more sense than being proud to be gay, or black or white, or whatever. It's simply the luck of the draw.
I love my country. I am thankful and grateful for being an American. But I believe pride in something that was handed to me at birth, a simple luck of the draw, doesn't make sense. Something that was given to you is something that doesn't warrant any pride whatsoever.
Being proud to be an American really doesn't make any more sense than being proud to be gay, or black or white, or sports fandom, or school pride, or whatever. It's simply the luck of the draw.
A person being born here (or anywhere) is the culmination of everything their ancestors have done, all the places they've moved, and all the ambitions they've had.
I don't think "you" could have been born anywhere else. It's not luck of the draw.
I really don't understand comments like this.
Having been born in and lived in eastern Europe, I almost can't help but be proud of this country. For all its faults, this is a great place to live with a rich and altruistic history -- sure it's done some pretty despicable things. But what country hasn't? I like the United States. I'm proud to live in a place with such a Constitution -- a place that supports freedom in word and in spirit, if not always in deed. And you, you who have had the fortune of being born here from the beginning of your lives? I would think you'd be even more proud than I am.
I hope you're at least thankful. Trust me, it could be a lot worse than this.
you're not going to convince a liberal to take pride in anything. their entire existence is basedA person being born here (or anywhere) is the culmination of everything their ancestors have done, all the places they've moved, and all the ambitions they've had.
I don't think "you" could have been born anywhere else. It's not luck of the draw.
you're not going to convince a liberal to take pride in anything. their entire existence is based
on victimization and pessimism.
it wasn't an ad hom. ya see what i mean? you took my observation and created this illusion in your mind that it was somehow personally insultingI am proud of my own achievements and my life choices that have turned out to be positive. Your repeated ad homs are ridiculous.
it wasn't an ad hom. ya see what i mean? you took my observation and created this illusion in your mind that i was somehow personally insulting
to you. that's a victimization scheme. thanks for proving my point.
1) your observation is bull****, and a lie.
2) You were insulting liberals, including myself.
I'm sorry if you think pointing out reality is victimization.
you're the one that thought pointing out reality made you the victim.
i'm a victim of no one. i'm not a liberal.
I really don't understand comments like this.
Having been born in and lived in eastern Europe, I almost can't help but be proud of this country.
For all its faults, this is a great place to live
with a rich and altruistic history --
sure it's done some pretty despicable things.
But what country hasn't?
I like the United States.
I'm proud to live in a place with such a Constitution --
a place that supports freedom in word and in spirit, if not always in deed.
And you, you who have had the fortune of being born here from the beginning of your lives? I would think you'd be even more proud than I am.
I hope you're at least thankful.
Trust me, it could be a lot worse than this.
You weren't pointing out reality. All you did was show your ass.
Exactly. Which is why I don't see a point to being proud of the place where one is accidentally born.
What exactly is there to be proud of? I didn't make this country.
If you want the honest truth, I have had two opportunities to leave this country permanently, and move somewhere where I could have had a better quality of life and a more tolerant society.
I turned down that opportunity both times. Not because I didn't want to. Not because I wasn't happier there - I was. I miss it. I have days where I regret that decision.
I chose to turn it down because there are too many people here I love who are struggling, and I can't be ok with giving up on that quite yet.
While it is true there are much, much worse places I could have been born, the horn America toots for itself is completely undeserved. We make up the very tail end of the truly developed world. We are the last to acknowledge every single civil rights movement that has taken place over our history. We are the least tolerant. We have the lowest quality of life, the highest crime, the lowest life expectancy. And we call ourselves the best nation on earth. We're not. Not by a long shot.
Every country has its problems, but most of them aren't so arrogant about trying to pretend they don't exist. That arrogance is why we seem unable to fix it.
And yet, I grew up with a very traditional American message. A message given to me by my father, whose family has been here since before the Revolution, and fought in the Revolution on the side of the colonies. I was taught to stand up for what I think is right, to be loud about it, to be involved in my government, to vote, to protest, to take the First Amendment and carry it around with me everywhere. When I was working for a paper, I carried a copy of the Constitution in my back pocket, and I protested in front of the White House against the Iraq War when I was 15.
I am not proud to be American. But that does not mean I don't believe in the potential of this country, and that I am not thankful for the opportunites I do have.
And I think it is far better to care enough to be ashamed of when your country fails to live up to its potential than to be proud for no logical reason.
I came back here not because I was proud, but because I was ashamed. And because I am thankful that I have more opportunity to fix that here than I would most other places - the rest of the developed world included - and because I couldn't live with myself if I didn't try.
I know of no other developed nation in which national pride is seen as normal.
Because, however miniscule, you have influence over it.
The one area where America does better than most of the rest of the developed world is freedom of speech. As such, that provides unique opportunity for change here that doesn't exist as strongly in other nations.
Since I am already a citizen of this country by accident of birth, it is foolish for me to complain about it and do nothing. I have been presented an opportunity in a country that I find problematic. And living abroad did nothing but affirm for me how serious those problems are.
Are you unable to parse words built for the convenience of conversation? Yes, I personified the US to save myself the time of having to write two sentences to clarify my point. Geez.
I know of no other developed nation in which national pride is seen as normal. Your nationality is an accident of birth, and a stupid thing to take pride in. You didn't do anything. You were simply born. So what?
I'm biased? You're the one screaming about how unappreciative people are for not taking "pride" in something they had nothing to do with. It's as stupid in taking pride in your race. And tell me, who exactly wouldn't be biased?
Do you wish to deny we have a lower life expectancy than most of the developed world, that our crime is higher, and that we are falling behind educationally? I'd like to see you try.
In terms of people fleeing, guess what. It's happening to America. The number of people renouncing their citizenship from America has tripled in the last couple years.
...really?
:2rofll:
I repeat, if there's no point in being proud of your country, what's the point in being ashamed?