View Poll Results: Are you proud to be an American?

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  • Yes.

    52 73.24%
  • No.

    19 26.76%
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Thread: Are you proud to be an American?

  1. #81
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    I really don't understand comments like this.

    Having been born in and lived in eastern Europe, I almost can't help but be proud of this country. For all its faults, this is a great place to live with a rich and altruistic history -- sure it's done some pretty despicable things. But what country hasn't? I like the United States. I'm proud to live in a place with such a Constitution -- a place that supports freedom in word and in spirit, if not always in deed. And you, you who have had the fortune of being born here from the beginning of your lives? I would think you'd be even more proud than I am.

    I hope you're at least thankful. Trust me, it could be a lot worse than this.
    I love my country. I am thankful and grateful for being an American. But I believe pride in something that was handed to me at birth, a simple luck of the draw, doesn't make sense. Something that was given to you is something that doesn't warrant any pride whatsoever.

    Being proud to be an American really doesn't make any more sense than being proud to be gay, or black or white, or sports fandom, or school pride, or whatever. It's simply the luck of the draw.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 06-25-11 at 09:51 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  2. #82
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I love my country. I am thankful and grateful for being an American. But I believe pride in something that was handed to me at birth, a simple luck of the draw, doesn't make sense. Something that was given to you is something that doesn't warrant any pride whatsoever.

    Being proud to be an American really doesn't make any more sense than being proud to be gay, or black or white, or whatever. It's simply the luck of the draw.
    Having pride in your country for those born into this land, well it comes naturally you have it but you just don't know yet. Trust me when the time comes your pride will show, remember blood is always thicker than water.

  3. #83
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I love my country. I am thankful and grateful for being an American. But I believe pride in something that was handed to me at birth, a simple luck of the draw, doesn't make sense. Something that was given to you is something that doesn't warrant any pride whatsoever.

    Being proud to be an American really doesn't make any more sense than being proud to be gay, or black or white, or sports fandom, or school pride, or whatever. It's simply the luck of the draw.
    A person being born here (or anywhere) is the culmination of everything their ancestors have done, all the places they've moved, and all the ambitions they've had.

    I don't think "you" could have been born anywhere else. It's not luck of the draw.
    SWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAG
    Quote Originally Posted by Josie
    Thanks for your awesomeness, Jeezy.

  4. #84
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    A person being born here (or anywhere) is the culmination of everything their ancestors have done, all the places they've moved, and all the ambitions they've had.

    I don't think "you" could have been born anywhere else. It's not luck of the draw.
    Why should I be proud of something my parents or ancestors have done? Their actions reflect credit upon THEM. Not me.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  5. #85
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    I really don't understand comments like this.

    Having been born in and lived in eastern Europe, I almost can't help but be proud of this country. For all its faults, this is a great place to live with a rich and altruistic history -- sure it's done some pretty despicable things. But what country hasn't? I like the United States. I'm proud to live in a place with such a Constitution -- a place that supports freedom in word and in spirit, if not always in deed. And you, you who have had the fortune of being born here from the beginning of your lives? I would think you'd be even more proud than I am.

    I hope you're at least thankful. Trust me, it could be a lot worse than this.
    Exactly. Which is why I don't see a point to being proud of the place where one is accidentally born.

    What exactly is there to be proud of? I didn't make this country.

    If you want the honest truth, I have had two opportunities to leave this country permanently, and move somewhere where I could have had a better quality of life and a more tolerant society.

    I turned down that opportunity both times. Not because I didn't want to. Not because I wasn't happier there - I was. I miss it. I have days where I regret that decision.

    I chose to turn it down because there are too many people here I love who are struggling, and I can't be ok with giving up on that quite yet.

    While it is true there are much, much worse places I could have been born, the horn America toots for itself is completely undeserved. We make up the very tail end of the truly developed world. We are the last to acknowledge every single civil rights movement that has taken place over our history. We are the least tolerant. We have the lowest quality of life, the highest crime, the lowest life expectancy. And we call ourselves the best nation on earth. We're not. Not by a long shot.

    Every country has its problems, but most of them aren't so arrogant about trying to pretend they don't exist. That arrogance is why we seem unable to fix it.

    And yet, I grew up with a very traditional American message. A message given to me by my father, whose family has been here since before the Revolution, and fought in the Revolution on the side of the colonies. I was taught to stand up for what I think is right, to be loud about it, to be involved in my government, to vote, to protest, to take the First Amendment and carry it around with me everywhere. When I was working for a paper, I carried a copy of the Constitution in my back pocket, and I protested in front of the White House against the Iraq War when I was 15.

    I am not proud to be American. But that does not mean I don't believe in the potential of this country, and that I am not thankful for the opportunites I do have.

    And I think it is far better to care enough to be ashamed of when your country fails to live up to its potential than to be proud for no logical reason.

    I came back here not because I was proud, but because I was ashamed. And because I am thankful that I have more opportunity to fix that here than I would most other places - the rest of the developed world included - and because I couldn't live with myself if I didn't try.

  6. #86
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    A person being born here (or anywhere) is the culmination of everything their ancestors have done, all the places they've moved, and all the ambitions they've had.

    I don't think "you" could have been born anywhere else. It's not luck of the draw.
    you're not going to convince a liberal to take pride in anything. their entire existence is based
    on victimization and pessimism.
    “The ideal form of government is democracy tempered with assassination.”
    http://www.indylevee.com/

  7. #87
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by lewstherin View Post
    you're not going to convince a liberal to take pride in anything. their entire existence is based
    on victimization and pessimism.
    I am proud of my own achievements and my life choices that have turned out to be positive. Your repeated ad homs are ridiculous.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  8. #88
    Educator lewstherin's Avatar
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I am proud of my own achievements and my life choices that have turned out to be positive. Your repeated ad homs are ridiculous.
    it wasn't an ad hom. ya see what i mean? you took my observation and created this illusion in your mind that it was somehow personally insulting
    to you. that's a victimization scheme. thanks for proving my point.
    “The ideal form of government is democracy tempered with assassination.”
    http://www.indylevee.com/

  9. #89
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by lewstherin View Post
    it wasn't an ad hom. ya see what i mean? you took my observation and created this illusion in your mind that i was somehow personally insulting
    to you. that's a victimization scheme. thanks for proving my point.
    1) your observation is bull****, and a lie.

    2) You were insulting liberals, including myself.

    I'm sorry if you think pointing out reality is victimization.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  10. #90
    Educator lewstherin's Avatar
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    1) your observation is bull****, and a lie.

    2) You were insulting liberals, including myself.

    I'm sorry if you think pointing out reality is victimization.
    you're the one that thought pointing out reality made you the victim.
    i'm a victim of no one. i'm not a liberal.
    “The ideal form of government is democracy tempered with assassination.”
    http://www.indylevee.com/

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