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Are you proud to be an American?

Are you proud to be an American?


  • Total voters
    58
And I repeat, because I have the ability to influence it. The fact that it is an accident of birth is irrelevant.

And if you influence the country for the positive, would you be proud of it?
 
And if you influence the country for the positive, would you be proud of it?

Proud of IT? Possibly. That implies pride in my own actions and the actions of others. But certainly not proud of simply being an American.
 
...really?

:2rofll:

"Opinion polls taken in the late 1980s and early 1990s in most European countries, Japan, and North America, find that Americans are invariably more positive-usually much more so-on items measuring such beliefs than the citizens of the other industrialized democracies. They continue to believe in America and its superiority as a social system. As of the mid-1990s, 75 percent of American adults continue to say that they are proud to be Americans. The corresponding percentages for other countries are: Britain, 54 percent; West Germany, 20 percent; and France 35 percent. The degree of patriotism is higher still for American youth. An astounding 98 percent of young Americans have reported being proud of their nationality. The numbers for youth in the United Kingdom are 58 percent, in German 65 percent, and in France 80 percent. When asked to react to the statement, 'I want to do something to serve my country,' 81 percent of young Americans said yes, compared to 18 percent answering no. The numbers for British youth were 46 percent yes and 42 percent no; for West Germans, they were 29 percent yes to 40 no; while among French youth, the replies were 55 percent yes and 34 no."
-Seymour Martin Lipset- American Exceptionalism: A Double-Edged Sword
 
It ceratainly serves a purpose. It's good that certain rights are enshrined in American law. However, it's important to note that, first, the state is incapable of creating rights, it can only choose to respect them.

:2rofll:

I have news for you; the only reason your human rights exist is because someone wrote them in a piece of paper. No human being is born with rights, just as no zebra is born in the wild having the right to not be eaten.
 
It should be noted, however, I like that we are that way. And Lipset thought so too.
 
:2rofll:

I have news for you; the only reason your human rights exist is because someone wrote them in a piece of paper. No human being is born with rights, just as no zebra is born in the wild having the right to not be eaten.

You should at least keep up the pretense that people have God-given rights. It serves us well.
 
Proud of IT? Possibly. That implies pride in my own actions and the actions of others. But certainly not proud of simply being an American.

So if you were to try something on a national level and American would listen to you, you would be proud of America in general?
 
You should at least keep up the pretense that people have God-given rights. It serves us well.

...which is pretty much the only reason we have them. They're certainly not God-given.
 
So if you were to try something on a national level and American would listen to you, you would be proud of America in general?

I'd be proud of a movement in general of which I was a part. I've been in small-scale situations like that in the past. My pride in it would have to do with the fact that I was directly involved in its existence and execution.

I have also been in situations where I have been merely "listened to." And I must say I don't care for it. I don't really like heirarchical thinking. I don't like being in the position myself, and I don't like people being sheepish. It's not something that I can respect. I want to know what they actually think, and if they agree, I want to know what their ideas are and I want them to help.

While I acknowledge there is such a thing as leaders and followers, I think the followers serve a very important purpose, and I don't see them executing it as much as they should. I think that purpose is to be the "double-check" of the leader's ideas. Leaders are frequently the sorts of people who are a bit unhinged, and that double-check is necessary.

I don't see leader-follower as a hierarchy. I see it as a difference of purpose, but both have a purpose. To me it's more like hypothesis-testing.
 
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:2rofll:

I have news for you; the only reason your human rights exist is because someone wrote them in a piece of paper. No human being is born with rights,..

Wrong. Again, the state can respect rights, it can't create rights. You might as well assert that murder is wrong because it is illegal. It's wrong whether it's legal or not. These things precede the law, which is, at it's best, an attempt to realize them.

ust as no zebra is born in the wild having the right to not be eaten.

This is simply nonsense, that, as far as I can tell, has nothing to do with anything.

I take it, then, that we are agreed on everything else...?
 
Wrong. Again, the state can respect rights, it can't create rights. You might as well assert that murder is wrong because it is illegal. It's wrong whether it's legal or not. These things precede the law, which is, at it's best, an attempt to realize them.

lol. that's some funny **** coming from an abortion crusader.
 
Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source. Only true humility is the antidote to shame. Pride is blinding, and IMO is a big contributor to the decay of our nation. The politicians have riled the emotions of many to support dead-end policies or to question loyalties.

There are many things about America that I love and I am glad I was born into such privilege. I also love the freedoms that we have versus the next country. But pride... I have no place for that in my heart.

Pride is little more than self-reward. Sometimes it is justified, but always it is delusional. If you are too busy feeling good about yourself then you are more prone to avoiding your mistakes or fatal flaws. No victory is an excuse to self-aggrandize in perpetuity - inner work is constant, whether on the individual or national levels. Self-empowerment does not come from pride, but true accomplishment through adversity, and through integrating both the light and shadow aspects of yourself.

Pride never has and never will be what makes America great - it is hard work, blood, sweat, and tears. If you become too attached to patting yourself on the back you lose scope of all the work that remains to be done. It's never over, especially in a nation that requires eternal vigilance of its freedoms to the degree America does.

Pride has made our nation lazy.
 
1) Not being proud does not mean being ashamed.

2) Loving something does not mean that one has to be proud of it. I love America the same way I love Big Macs. They're both ****ing awesome. Should I be proud of Big Macs?

They have the best french fries.
 
I am proud, and lucky to be an American. So many opportunities are awarded to me simply because of where I was born.

Wouldn't a better word be grateful instead of proud? I am proud of my accomplishments that having rights have enabled me to accomplish. And the non citizens living in America are grateful they are here, but they aren't American to have pride in being. It still makes sense that they are grateful though.
 
A person being born here (or anywhere) is the culmination of everything their ancestors have done, all the places they've moved, and all the ambitions they've had.

I don't think "you" could have been born anywhere else. It's not luck of the draw.

Some of my family came here recently too, but I was born in the states... Aren't you kind of arguing that you should be proud of your former country too? That is also the culmination of everything YOUR ancestors did.
 
you're deflecting off into legal definitions now. you said legality didn't matter. remember?

I'm not saying aborted embryos aren't legally persons or human beings, I'm saying; they aren't persons or human beings, at least, in more than 96% of cases.
 
You should at least keep up the pretense that people have God-given rights. It serves us well.

It doesn't say God gives rights in the Bible, which the constitution was supposedly based on... :shrug:
 
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