View Poll Results: Are you proud to be an American?

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  • Yes.

    52 73.24%
  • No.

    19 26.76%
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Thread: Are you proud to be an American?

  1. #201
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    I'm proud to be an American.

  2. #202
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    I think America is a good country to live in compared to most, but I'm not exactly proud to call myself one.

  3. #203
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    It's astonishing the lengths you will go to, to avoid admitting that America is at least a pretty good country and those who live here have reason to feel pleasure/satisfaction (ie pride of association) that they do.
    The only way that's true is if you wish to compare America to the category I haven't been using - the third world. If you're dealing with the first world, we don't look very good. From personal experience, we aren't very good. And I've been very specific about that through-out, and made the extremely obvious concessions about living in the developed world simply as an investment of trying to nip time-wasting and ridiculous statements like the one above before they happen. Oh well. I tried.

    So if you think my "lengths" are overdone, then your complaint is mostly that I'm not including Ethiopia in my personal analysis. Your position must be pretty weak if that's the kind of place I need to compare it to. It's like being a pro-athlete and thinking it's unfair unless you get to play a kiddie team, you know, just to even things out.

    If your analysis comes out differently (which I think would be difficult - of all the sources in this thread, there is exactly one that supports that, that I've seen), or if you're just happy not to be in Ethiopia and that's good enough for you, great. But it doesn't take any particular lengths if that's all you got. Evidently the tidal wave of American ex-pats agree. I'd be one myself if there weren't so many people I cared about still here (though several are considering leaving themselves, and they are all over the political map save the far, far right), and if that weird American passion and our unique degree of freedom of speech didn't make me so hopeful.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 06-26-11 at 02:31 PM.

  4. #204
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    No. I am not proud at all; even though at one time I was an ardent patriot. I have lost faith in this government and in the American people. It saddens me to say that.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  5. #205
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by DashingAmerican View Post
    I know that everybody here has their differences and that we rarely all agree on something, but as it is, do you think that America is a wonderful country and are you proud to be an American?

    I, for what it's worth, am proud to be an American.
    Of course, I love the Republic. Now if we can just do something about the government.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #206
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    That is the point. There is a certain level of societal collapse at which it doesn't help. Interventionism at that level of dysfunction is a band-aid over a bullet hole. Same reason I think our cycle with Iraq is so stupid - it's the same concept on a deeper scale.

    They need to do this themselves. Notice how the Arab Spring has hit the least or not at all in the countries in which we intervened in beforehand, or have been involved in an on-going hat change with their government, and yet their circumstances are no better.
    ...but it does help. All the things cited would be a great service. I don't think any of those things are stupid at all, and there are many organizations that can accommodate you in accomplishing those things.

    That you don't want to go is entirely different.



    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    Oh look! You've got it!

    Me being American is a coincidence. Had I created America, that wouldn't be the case, but I didn't.

    How can I despise myself if my criticism is aimed towards something I don't identify with? Hmmm...
    ...yeah except there's a "rest of" that paragraph. There's no intention in the white race. It's just a bunch of white people who had sex. There's really no such thing as "white culture." Anyone who thinks so is obtuse. American institutions were created with a purpose in mind -- one that I identify with. The white race? No purpose, aside from those who think whiteness makes them superior, and I've already explained that patriotism does not equate to conceit.



    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    And like I said like I said, everything else I've reading contradicts it rather heavily. Still looking into it.
    There's a difference between acknowledging the shortcomings of the United States, and making bombastic claims about it losing its "developed country" status. That we have problems is certain. That we are inferior by all measures that matter when compared to all countries that matter is selective interpretation on your part.

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    Good for you. I think that's silly. I've told you why. You can't tell me why not.
    ...and yet none of your reasons "why" actually stick.

    1. I've already explained that patriotism doesn't mean conceit, as have other people in this thread who feel patriotism.
    2. I've already explained that patriotism doesn't mean taking credit for things you did not do, as have the others.
    3. I've already explained that patriotism does not have to be excessive or become full-blown nationalism.


    Thus far, the only legitimate argument you've brought forth is..."well, I just can't find myself relating to the United States." If you had begun and ended with that point, I could at least respect the position. But that's not it for you. The very idea of patriotism or of being being patriotic is repugnant to you, for reasons that do not stick whatsoever. To you, there's no such thing as "healthy" patriotism at all.

    Because you can't relate to this particular brand of respect that people give their country, you pan it as nonsense -- which is pretty much your modus operandi for everything.
    SWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAG
    Quote Originally Posted by Josie
    Thanks for your awesomeness, Jeezy.

  7. #207
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Well, if you've simply decided to ignore the reasons I've given, then there's not much to say, is there? I see negative effects from these sorts of efforts, and I happen to know a fair amount about charities, what they do in those sorts of places, and that I don't think it's terribly helpful. Again, if it were just a matter of me being "afraid," then I'd have no reason not to give money to those type of causes. But I don't. Because I disagree with the methodology and I don't think it helps. You keep ignoring this point - maybe because it proves you wrong.

    You're wrong. There is certainly a Western culture, and for most of history that has meant a white culture. Note how most of the West has a related style of government (yes, I know they're different, but they share a lot of fundamental similarities). So, shall I be "proud" of being white?

    We are straggling by the majority of measures, including education, life span, health care, standard of living, and in most cases crime. That is not an insignificant list. And note how I have consistently use words like "most" or "majority." My contention has never been that we are not, indeed, a developed country. We just aren't doing as well by most measures of what that means as most other developed countries are. To my and others dozens of sources, you've been able to produce exactly one, shown in a wiki article with methodology from 1994. Your counter-arguments aren't great.

    I have a fundamentally different idea of what patriotism means, which has nothing to do with any definition of pride. Patriotism isn't repugnant to me. You simply insist pride is part of the definition.

  8. #208
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    I have a fundamentally different idea of what patriotism means, which has nothing to do with any definition of pride. Patriotism isn't repugnant to me. You simply insist pride is part of the definition.
    Well then that's just you splitting microscopic hairs.

    There is no meaningful difference between national pride and patriotism. You can't love a country and be willing to sacrifice for it (de: patriotism) in the utter absence of national pride. In fact, I don't see how you can feel patriotism while merely acknowledging the accomplishments of certain people, and not feeling association with the idea of country. It's not possible, and I highly doubt you'll find anyone who feels patriotic that agrees.

    So either they're all wrong because they are so utterly incapable of understanding themselves, or you are because you're a sourpuss. I'm going with the latter.
    Last edited by Jeezy; 06-26-11 at 03:34 PM.
    SWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAG
    Quote Originally Posted by Josie
    Thanks for your awesomeness, Jeezy.

  9. #209
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    Well then that's just you splitting microscopic hairs.

    There is no meaningful difference between national pride and patriotism. You can't love a country and be willing to sacrifice for it (de: patriotism) in the utter absence of national pride. In fact, I don't see how you can feel patriotism while merely acknowledging the accomplishments of certain people, and not feeling association with the idea of country. It's not possible, and I highly doubt you'll find anyone who feels patriotic that agrees.

    So either they're all wrong, or you are. I'm going with the latter.
    Ah. So if you don't get it, it doesn't exist, and if you don't understand the difference, there isn't one. Got it.

  10. #210
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    Ah. So if you don't get it, it doesn't exist, and if you don't understand the difference, there isn't one. Got it.
    Explain to me how you can be a patriot in the utter, complete absence of national pride.
    SWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAG
    Quote Originally Posted by Josie
    Thanks for your awesomeness, Jeezy.

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