View Poll Results: Are you proud to be an American?

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  • Yes.

    52 73.24%
  • No.

    19 26.76%
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Thread: Are you proud to be an American?

  1. #151
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    I'm not ashamed of being an American, but I'm not proud of it either. I would rather appreciate and be proud of who I am as an individual. I want to be myself first, and an American second. I don't agree with everything my country does, and some of it I find to be horribly wrong. I voted no, I'm not "proud" to be an American. I don't think my American citizenship makes me any better than anyone else in this world. I appreciate America and the freedoms that I have here, but I don't really have any national pride or personal pride over my status as an American.
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  2. #152
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I'm not ashamed of being an American, but I'm not proud of it either. I would rather appreciate and be proud of who I am as an individual. I want to be myself first, and an American second. I don't agree with everything my country does, and some of it I find to be horribly wrong. I voted no, I'm not "proud" to be an American. I don't think my American citizenship makes me any better than anyone else in this world. I appreciate America and the freedoms that I have here, but I don't really have any national pride or personal pride over my status as an American.
    why do you hate black people?

    Oops, I guess thats what happens when you have a knee jerk reaction, but you get the wrong knee.

    Sorry digs...

  3. #153
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    I was only trying to draw a comparison to another example to blind pride and the whole "We're #1" syndrome that many Americans seem to suffer from. I don't think you are a nazi and I don't think the policies of the USA are comparable to nazi Germany. I regret not elaborating on that when I posted the image. I apologize if I offended.

    We are not number one. No one is. The world does not revolve around us. The world is a cooperative effort just as much as it is an anarchy. I am sick of the egocentricism around Americanism. I'm American and I like our country, but I don't "heil Hitler" like others do.
    Your first paragraph is a retraction and apology, but your last sentence is a reaffirmation that you equate patriotism with Nazi-ism.

    I wouldn't be proud of my country if we were sending Jews, gays and Gypsies to the death camps, or the other things Nazi Germany was trying to do. I wouldn't be supporting it. I wouldn't be proud, I'd be ashamed.
    But we are NOT doing any of these things; we are not doing anything comparable to the Nazi's at all, and to bring them into it like this shows an irrational hatred of America that has nothing to do with facts or truth.

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  4. #154
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    Not really. They say it's the best, knowing that it's not the best at everything. I don't really see that as conceit. Just hyperbole. Do you think someone who puts a flag outside of their house is saying "America is the best country on earth?" No. But is that a symbol of national pride? Yes.
    Many Americans do say we're the best on earth. This is factually false. We are, in fact, at the bottom of the barrel of the developed nations of the world. I don't have any opinion about someone who hangs a flag, as I don't know the context simply by seeing it. Some contexts I would find justified, and others ridiculous.

    Not at all. That definition of pride could also be the definition for self-pride. In fact, the "self" is sort of implicit. Replace "self" with "national" and there it is. When I say "reasonable and justifiable" respect for a nation, that means much more than law. A nation's laws are merely its legislative and judicial apparatus. One can respect a nation's history, traditions, customs, common characteristics ascribed to people of that nation etc. Law is a separate matter.
    But "self" and "national" are extremely different. I think tradition is irrelevant and usually pointless. At its worst, it holds societies back frmo growing. Our history is full of blood and injustice. This is true for many developed countries, but most have a better-looking recent history. I admit this is due to the fact that America's history is shorter and we haven't really matured as a country. But still, our history isn't much to be proud of. As far as the characteristics of our people, again, they are mostly not favorable. We are some of the least educated and least tolerant people in the developed world. From my own experience, Americans are also the most passionate, and I do have an appreciation for that. But when combined with everything else, it is usually aimed poorly and nothing to be proud of.

    ...and again, that's absolutely fine. I don't think national pride necessitates conceit. You can be proud of being good at something without being proud of being the best, or even caring whether you're the best.
    Problem is, by the metric of developed countries, we aren't much good at anything. We have unique characteristics that carry the potential for great things, but we very seldom live up to it. It's a shame. And it causes me to be disappointed more often than not.

  5. #155
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    why do you hate black people?

    Oops, I guess thats what happens when you have a knee jerk reaction, but you get the wrong knee.

    Sorry digs...
    You should take care. Knee jerk reactions can lead to arthritis of the brain

    You are forgiven.
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  6. #156
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Most definitely not!
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  7. #157
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    Nope. Possession and achievment don't apply to simply being born into a nation, so all that's left is association. Since America claims to be developed, I am judging it under those terms. America consistently underforms in nearly every metric. I am not proud to be associated with it.
    Association would be the correct metric to assess whether pride applies to you or not. That's why I posted the definition... there were so many inaccurate ones floating around.

    OK. So based on the definition you are not proud to be an American. Good to know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #158
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Most definitely not!
    Are you proud to be a... wait. That's for another thread.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  9. #159
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    None of these traits that you are ascribing are uniquely ' American.'
    They absolutely are. American asylum seekers have a unique narrative. Nowhere else are you an American asylum seeker besides America. In no other country do immigrants relate to Ellis Island. It's a fundamentally different story. American English is distinct from Australian English and British English. Also unique. You not caring enough to notice does not preclude their uniqueness.

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    You keep talking about the country as if it were a person, it isn't. Any accomplishments were made by actual people, not this mythological entity.
    ...and a good many of those people happened to believe in that mythological entity, and were proud of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    Because nationalism is fundamentally irrational, and socially corrosive, much like religion.
    It's perfectly rational to feel pride by association. Why do you think people feel proud of their respective sports teams when they make progress?

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    Yes. Noam Chomsky; the Anarchist, the MIT professor, the scientist, the most cited living author, and eighth most cited author in recorded history.
    Yep. That one.

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    Cuba isn't socialist.
    You're right. It's a socialist dictatorship. Which is what I said. If you want to call it a communist dictatorship, go ahead. I don't particularly care to argue the difference right now. Also, when Raul announced a pay raise a few years back, he said it was to rewards those who "defended socialism." Hmm....

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    Cuba spends a significantly larger portion of it's GDP on foreign aid. In fact, comparing foreign aid to GDP, the United States consistently ranks near the bottom, behind all of Western Europe, Japan, Australia, China, etc., etc. Suffice to say, Cuba spends sa greater percentage of it's GDP on foreign aid than the United States. Cuba has also been outstanding in sending trained medical technicians to the most impoverished regions, Pakistan, Haiti, several African countries, etc. So, yes, the Cuban government is significantly more altruistic than the United States government.
    Saying a nation is "more altruistic" for giving a larger percentage of its GDP is like saying the nation that lost a higher proportion of its population during a war was more in-the-right. We give much more in real terms. Besides, Cuban foreign aid is geared towards its Bolivarian allies, and what it terms "anti-colonialism." Aside from that, it's mostly their international medical brigades doing PR.

    Many of the Cuban doctors sent abroad actually defect. That should tell you something.

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    Then you hold all of them accountable, especially the United States. There are contemptible human rights abuses occurring in North Korea, China, Colombia, etc., but it takes absolutely zero moral courage to point that out. There's also nothing we can do about it. The real test is applying those standards to ourselves, which is heresy. Otherwise, you're a hypocrite.
    Again, not sure how this precludes me from feeling pride.

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    There's no reason why I should be pursuaded by how being American makes you feel. It's simply not relevent.
    I mean, the whole point is that I really don't understand how one could NOT be proud of America. Whether or not you feel pride by the end of this argument doesn't mean anything to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    First; I'm an Atheist, among other things.

    Second,; again, this is completely wrong. It is impossible to create rights, only to respect rights. The law has no inherent moral authority. The law can be just, or unjust, but justice precedes the law, and originates outside of it.
    I'm sorry that having no innate rights in reality hurts your world view. Seems like you feel rather attached to something that doesn't exist. Maybe that's your substitute for religious faith, eh? ALL HAIL THE CHURCH OF ANARCHO-SOCIALISM! That's what you are, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    In other words; 'Love it or leave it.' If I believed in such things, I'd say that was a fundamentally un-American, and anti-American attitude. I don't want to leave this country; I want to dismantle illegitimate institutions. I oppose these institutions not simply because I find them personally objectionable, but because of what they do to my fellow man.

    ...

    First, I think it should be a fairly obvious truism that any despot can utter high-minded rhetoric about 'fairness', 'justice', 'freedom.' According to their propagandists, even the most brutal regimes were the picture of benevolence. What matters is what people do, whether or not they live up to the rhetoric. That's just fairly obvious.

    The United States is absolutely the most prolific sponsor and perpetrator of state terrorism. Take the official US definition of Terrorism;

    'premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience.'

    There are numerous historical examples; Indonesia, Chile, Guatemala, Cuba, and Nicaragua, for which the United States was officially convicted by the International Court of Justice, in 1986.

    As for the correlation between US military aid and human rights abuses, I would recommend the 1981 study by Lars Schoultz, There have been impeccable corroborating studies by Martha Huggins, and Edward S. Herman, which can be found fairly easily.
    So let me get this straight...you live in a nation that, according to you, is not only the number one sponsor of state terrorism in the world, but fundamentally illegitimate...yet you persist in living here and paying taxes (which, to you, should be blood money)... and your excuse is that you want to butcher the cow you're milking? Take note --this is why people of your ilk are ridiculed. Actually, I feel pity towards you.

    I've already stated that I'm well aware of America's shortcomings, including its interventionism. It doesn't preclude me from being proud of it. Just as you were not personally responsible for the good things in America's past, I was not responsible for, let's say...the murder of Mohammed Mossadiq. I just happen to believe that the ideological magnitude of America's beneficial actions outweigh those of the negative.
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  10. #160
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    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I don't know why the views of an Anarchist, who doesn't believe in nation-states at all, has any relevance to me and whether I'm proud of my nation.
    Well, I imagine it's much easier to only debate people who agree with you.
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