View Poll Results: Are you proud to be an American?

Voters
71. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes.

    52 73.24%
  • No.

    19 26.76%
Page 15 of 25 FirstFirst ... 51314151617 ... LastLast
Results 141 to 150 of 245

Thread: Are you proud to be an American?

  1. #141
    Sage
    SmokeAndMirrors's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    RVA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:33 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,170

    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    Do you honestly believe that, when the average American says "I am proud of the United States," they are

    1. Taking credit for something?
    2. Asserting the complete and intractable superiority of the United States over other nations?


    All they do is take all of those people and events you are humbled by, and create a tradition out of them, subsequently taking pride in that tradition. To me, national pride is semantically different from personal pride.

    Pride can also be defined as a reasonable or justifiable self-respect. Therefore national pride can be a reasonable or justifiable respect for your nation. So, by that definition, would you say you feel national pride?
    Regarding:
    1. - Possibly, though I doubt they are great in number.
    2. - Absolutely. Most Americans do believe America is superior, and the "best country on earth." And they are factually wrong by nearly every single metric there is.

    They are using the wrong word, then. That is not really a matter of pride. And if it is true pride, then they are claiming unearned and irrelevant factors as sources of pride.

    Pride can also be defined as a reasonable or justifiable self-respect. Therefore national pride can be a reasonable or justifiable respect for your nation. So, by that definition, would you say you feel national pride?
    First, I think you're extrapolating that definition too far. The original definition, which revolves around self-respect, is exactly why I don't have national pride. There is no aspect of "myself" that has anything to do with the existence of America. And I think extrapolating that onto the nation is a huge leap that is well outside the parameters of that definition.

    But, accepting it for the sake of argument, still not really. To me, this implies a respect of law - and frankly I respect common sense more than I respect law, no matter where I am. I just don't pay much attention to rule of law if I think it is unjust. My standards remain consistent no matter what country I am talking about. Realistic adjustments of expectation may apply depending on the real situation of a given country, but that's it. And I don't think America is special in any way. It has certain aspects in which it is somewhat unique, but so does every other country. Every human is different too, and yet that doesn't make one inherently more important or better than another.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 06-26-11 at 02:21 AM.

  2. #142
    Stigmatized! End R Word! Kali's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Last Seen
    08-19-12 @ 12:29 AM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    13,334
    Blog Entries
    7

    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    HELL YES! Why would I not be?
    ~Following My Own Flow~

  3. #143
    Distributist
    Jeezy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    10-14-15 @ 03:15 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    1,326

    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    2. - Absolutely. Most Americans do believe America is superior, and the "best country on earth." And they are factually wrong by nearly every single metric there is.
    Not really. They say it's the best, knowing that it's not the best at everything. I don't really see that as conceit. Just hyperbole. Do you think someone who puts a flag outside of their house is saying "America is the best country on earth?" No. But is that a symbol of national pride? Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    First, I think you're extrapolating that definition too far. The original definition, which revolves around self-respect, is exactly why I don't have national pride. There is no aspect of "myself" that has anything to do with the existence of American. And I think extrapolating that onto the nation is a huge leap that is well outside the parameters of that defintion.

    But, accepting is for the sake of argument, still not really. To me, this implies a respect of law - and frankly I respect common sense more than I respect law, no matter where I am. I just don't pay much attention to rule of law if I think it is unjust. My standards remain consistent no matter what country I am talking about. Realistic adjustments of expectation may apply depending on the real situation of a given country, but that's it. And I don't think America is special in any way. It has certain aspects in which it is somewhat unique, but so does every other country. Every human is different too, and yet that doesn't make one inherently more important or better than another.
    Not at all. That definition of pride could also be the definition for self-pride. In fact, the "self" is sort of implicit. Replace "self" with "national" and there it is. When I say "reasonable and justifiable" respect for a nation, that means much more than law. A nation's laws are merely its legislative and judicial apparatus. One can respect a nation's history, traditions, customs, common characteristics ascribed to people of that nation etc. Law is a separate matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    And I don't think America is special in any way. It has certain aspects in which it is somewhat unique, but so does every other country. Every human is different too, and yet that doesn't make one inherently more important or better than another.
    ...and again, that's absolutely fine. I don't think national pride necessitates conceit. You can be proud of being good at something without being proud of being the best, or even caring whether you're the best.
    Last edited by Jeezy; 06-26-11 at 02:27 AM.
    SWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAG
    Quote Originally Posted by Josie
    Thanks for your awesomeness, Jeezy.

  4. #144
    Global Moderator
    I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

    CaptainCourtesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:04 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    152,725

    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    The definition of pride that most applies here:

    Pleasure or satisfaction taken in an achievement, possession, or association
    pride: Definition, Synonyms from Answers.com
    Now, assess whether you are proud to be an American.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #145
    Professor
    NGNM85's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Last Seen
    11-10-17 @ 11:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    1,571

    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    What does being inherently better have to do with being proud of the United States?
    None of these traits that you are ascribing are uniquely ' American.'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    I feel American, because I speak English and because I am part of a rich history of asylum seekers looking for freedom and a better quality of life...one which America has provided to me. I am both thankful for that, and proud to live in a country that can look back on a history of accomplishment.
    You keep talking about the country as if it were a person, it isn't. Any accomplishments were made by actual people, not this mythological entity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    I don't understand why you aren't.
    Because nationalism is fundamentally irrational, and socially corrosive, much like religion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    I can only attribute it to unwarranted pessimism and reading from the Chomskian script.
    Yes. Noam Chomsky; the Anarchist, the MIT professor, the scientist, the most cited living author, and eighth most cited author in recorded history.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    Yeah, because socialist dictatorships are so altruistic.
    Cuba isn't socialist.

    Cuba spends a significantly larger portion of it's GDP on foreign aid. In fact, comparing foreign aid to GDP, the United States consistently ranks near the bottom, behind all of Western Europe, Japan, Australia, China, etc., etc. Suffice to say, Cuba spends sa greater percentage of it's GDP on foreign aid than the United States. Cuba has also been outstanding in sending trained medical technicians to the most impoverished regions, Pakistan, Haiti, several African countries, etc. So, yes, the Cuban government is significantly more altruistic than the United States government.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    Stupidity.

    I can hold a country accountable for things, yet acknowledge that most countries do those things.
    Then you hold all of them accountable, especially the United States. There are contemptible human rights abuses occurring in North Korea, China, Colombia, etc., but it takes absolutely zero moral courage to point that out. There's also nothing we can do about it. The real test is applying those standards to ourselves, which is heresy. Otherwise, you're a hypocrite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    I know this is hard for you to believe, since you seem a little self-centered and don't like things that don't have to "do with you,"
    There's no reason why I should be pursuaded by how being American makes you feel. It's simply not relevent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    but you are not born with rights. Doesn't mean they aren't worth defending or whatever, but rights are created because they are written down and because people have reasoned that it's better to accept the abstract value of those rights. The rights themselves exist because of human imagination. No God and no idealized version of a natural state can truly change that.
    First; I'm an Atheist, among other things.

    Second,; again, this is completely wrong. It is impossible to create rights, only to respect rights. The law has no inherent moral authority. The law can be just, or unjust, but justice precedes the law, and originates outside of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    Then don't vote in one, or pay taxes in one, or live in one. It's easier than you think. Take some classes in wilderness survival and and go live off the grid. People do it. Why live by the rules of a fundamentally illegitimate institution?You have the option not to, and honestly it's pretty easy. Convince others to do the same. Maybe that'll take you farther than posting about it on the internet. By all means, go.
    In other words; 'Love it or leave it.' If I believed in such things, I'd say that was a fundamentally un-American, and anti-American attitude. I don't want to leave this country; I want to dismantle illegitimate institutions. I oppose these institutions not simply because I find them personally objectionable, but because of what they do to my fellow man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    This paragraph is laughable and doesn't merit a true response.
    First, I think it should be a fairly obvious truism that any despot can utter high-minded rhetoric about 'fairness', 'justice', 'freedom.' According to their propagandists, even the most brutal regimes were the picture of benevolence. What matters is what people do, whether or not they live up to the rhetoric. That's just fairly obvious.

    The United States is absolutely the most prolific sponsor and perpetrator of state terrorism. Take the official US definition of Terrorism;

    'premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience.'

    There are numerous historical examples; Indonesia, Chile, Guatemala, Cuba, and Nicaragua, for which the United States was officially convicted by the International Court of Justice, in 1986.

    As for the correlation between US military aid and human rights abuses, I would recommend the 1981 study by Lars Schoultz, There have been impeccable corroborating studies by Martha Huggins, and Edward S. Herman, which can be found fairly easily.
    Economic Left/Right: -7.25, Authoritarian/Libertarian:-7.13
    All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume. -Noam Chomsky

  6. #146
    Doesn't go below juicy
    tacomancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cleveland
    Last Seen
    05-20-16 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    31,781

    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by DashingAmerican View Post
    I know that everybody here has their differences and that we rarely all agree on something, but as it is, do you think that America is a wonderful country and are you proud to be an American?

    I, for what it's worth, am proud to be an American.
    Not sure if I can answer the question absolutely. There are days when the country does the right thing and there are days when the country does the wrong thing.

  7. #147
    Professor
    NGNM85's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Last Seen
    11-10-17 @ 11:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    1,571

    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    It has faults and flaws and there are some things I would change. However this is a nation where even the poor typically have a home, enough food, a TV, and maybe a car or computer. It is a nation where the potential to prosper through education and hard work is greater than almost any other nation on earth.
    In terms of poverty, illiteracy, infant mortality, and healthcare, to name a few, the United States ranks consustently about dead last in the industrialized world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    We are powerful but largely benevolent.
    I think the Indonesians, East Timorese, Chileans, El Salvadorans, Nicraguans, Iranians, Panamanians, Guatemalans, etc., etc., would have a different picture of US 'benevolence.' No offense, but this is a little ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Hundreds of millions live in (reasonably) free and democratic states because tens of thousands of US servicemen gave their lives... and we rarely ask for anything more than a small plot of land to bury our dead, and maybe an airbase or two to help keep the neighborhood bullies at bay. The very people we've spend 50 years protecting often sneer at us... but we keep protecting them anyway.
    What states are you talking about? I can only assume you're talking about the defeat of the Axis powers in WWII. (???)

    Again, millions also lived, and live under brutal despotism, grinding poverty, etc., because of US intervention, or agresssion, I would assert that the latter number is far greater, of course, I'm not entirely sure what you're counting.
    Economic Left/Right: -7.25, Authoritarian/Libertarian:-7.13
    All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume. -Noam Chomsky

  8. #148
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Everywhere and Nowhere
    Last Seen
    03-07-12 @ 03:28 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,692

    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Utterly uncalled for. There is no comparison.

    We are not gassing millions of undesirables in death camps.
    We are not attempting to conquer the world. At this very moment we're busy trying to give BACK the two countries we most recently liberated from tyranny.
    We are not trying to advance the concept that we're the "master race" or the natural overlords of the thousand-year Reich.

    You cannot compare the Reich with the USA with any intellectual honesty. To even do so is to classify yourself with the other irrational America-haters who have about as much factual basis for their hate as Westboro Church does for ITS hate.
    I was only trying to draw a comparison to another example to blind pride and the whole "We're #1" syndrome that many Americans seem to suffer from. I don't think you are a nazi and I don't think the policies of the USA are comparable to nazi Germany. I regret not elaborating on that when I posted the image. I apologize if I offended.

    We are not number one. No one is. The world does not revolve around us. The world is a cooperative effort just as much as it is an anarchy. I am sick of the egocentricism around Americanism. I'm American and I like our country, but I don't "heil Hitler" like others do.

  9. #149
    Global Moderator
    The Hammer of Chaos
    Goshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dixie
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,178

    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    In terms of poverty, illiteracy, infant mortality, and healthcare, to name a few, the United States ranks consustently about dead last in the industrialized world.



    I think the Indonesians, East Timorese, Chileans, El Salvadorans, Nicraguans, Iranians, Panamanians, Guatemalans, etc., etc., would have a different picture of US 'benevolence.' No offense, but this is a little ridiculous.



    What states are you talking about? I can only assume you're talking about the defeat of the Axis powers in WWII. (???)

    Again, millions also lived, and live under brutal despotism, grinding poverty, etc., because of US intervention, or agresssion, I would assert that the latter number is far greater, of course, I'm not entirely sure what you're counting.
    I don't know why the views of an Anarchist, who doesn't believe in nation-states at all, has any relevance to me and whether I'm proud of my nation.


    Addressing CC's post...

    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    The definition of pride that most applies here:

    Pleasure or satisfaction taken in an achievement, possession, or associationpride: Definition, Synonyms from Answers.com
    Now, assess whether you are proud to be an American.
    Yup, by that definition I'm certainly proud to be an American. I certainly take pleasure and satisfaction in being an American.

    Yeah, I know it's cliched, but... if you take no "pride" in America, if you find no pleasure or satisfaction in being a citizen of this nation... what they hell are you doing here? Go somewhere you'd find preferable, some country you can be satisfied/pleased to be a part of. And don't let the door hit ya....

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  10. #150
    Sage
    SmokeAndMirrors's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    RVA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:33 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,170

    Re: Are you proud to be an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    The definition of pride that most applies here:



    Now, assess whether you are proud to be an American.
    Nope. Possession and achievment don't apply to simply being born into a nation, so all that's left is association. Since America claims to be developed, I am judging it under those terms. America consistently underforms in nearly every metric. I am not proud to be associated with it.

Page 15 of 25 FirstFirst ... 51314151617 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •