How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rights?

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Goshin said:

How much time have you spent in prison? I've spent more than a little time in them in my law enforcement past. They aren't as nice as some people think, but they are hardly hellholes. Most inmates are in mid to low security prisons which from what I've seen are pretty orderly and not really that violent. Granted that some hi-sec prisons where they incarcerate the worst-of-the-worst are a different story, but there's only so much you can do with scum. They make their own hell.

Click to expand...

According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics there are approximately 70,000 reported prison rapes annually. And that's just the ones that are reported. Many people just want to serve their time and be left alone, not everyone is trying to "make their own hell." And the ones who do should be isolated from other prisoners.

Our criminal justice system is WORSE than China's, where they execute dissidents and make the family pay for the bullet??

Click to expand...

But far fewer than what deal with OUR unjust system.

WORSE than Iran's, where they hang, stone or decapitate girls unfortunate enough to get raped??

Click to expand...

Far fewer than what deal with OUR unjust system.

WORSE than Saudi Arabia where violations of Sharia can get you stoned or chopped??

Click to expand...

Far fewer than what deal with OUR unjust system.

That is one of the most outrageously unfactual claims I've ever heard. I'm tempted to ask what you've been smoking.

Click to expand...

I'm not saying that we should look to these regimes as a model of human rights...but it's hard to claim any sort of moral high ground over them when our own criminal justice system is among the most barbaric in the world. I find it incredibly naive when people gasp in horror at the thought of Saudi police cutting off someone's hand for, say, stealing a car...yet you can receive a far worse penalty than that in the American justice system, such as being raped daily and locked in a cage for the rest of your life. The main difference is that we incarcerate a lot MORE people than those countries we look down on for their human rights records.

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Goshin said:

Your first argument is invalid as we are currently reforming the military to allow openly-gay servicepersons. Your second is related to SSM which I've already addressed; it is legal in some states, not in others, but there appear to be very very few that really want it anyway, so I don't see it as such a huge deal.


If you recall I support legalizing the use and production of at least some drugs, which is about half of our prison population.

However, you look at Britain. They have a far higher rate of violent crime than we do. Why? 1. They coddle criminals... 2. they make it hard for honest citizens to defend themselves.

Our prison rates shot up after "three strikes" became common. Our crime rates also started to plummet. I expect there was a connection: keep habitual criminals in prison.

Click to expand...

Regarding homosexuals again, there are other organizations like the Boy Scouts for example which officially do not allow atheist or homosexual members yet they receive Federal Funding. Now I suppose if its a private group they can do as they please, but receiving Federal funding for discrimination irks me. Now since its a fairly decentralized organization, so its not like every chapter is the same. And to my shame I don't have a source, I found one but now I can't locate it again, so if you disbelief that I wouldn't blame you.

As for the criminal justice system, do you have any data on UK vs US crime rates? And kudos for the support of legalization of some drugs.

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

This is irrelevant to me, anyway. I'm opposed to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Goshin said:

I'm sorry but bull****.

How much time have you spent in prison? I've spent more than a little time in them in my law enforcement past. They aren't as nice as some people think, but they are hardly hellholes. Most inmates are in mid to low security prisons which from what I've seen are pretty orderly and not really that violent. Granted that some hi-sec prisons where they incarcerate the worst-of-the-worst are a different story, but there's only so much you can do with scum. They make their own hell.

Our criminal justice system is WORSE than China's, where they execute dissidents and make the family pay for the bullet?? WORSE than Iran's, where they hang, stone or decapitate girls unfortunate enough to get raped?? WORSE than Saudi Arabia where violations of Sharia can get you stoned or chopped?? That is one of the most outrageously unfactual claims I've ever heard. I'm tempted to ask what you've been smoking.

Click to expand...

I partly agree with you here. Federal prisons are especially well taken care of, but that's not the point. The point is we have ridiculous, stupid laws that people get jailed for and we have a ridiculous incarceration rate.

And torture definitely brought us down.

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

ludahai said:

Article 1.
• All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Article 2.
• Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Article 3.
• Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

Article 4.
• No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.
Article 5.

• No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

Click to expand...

Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rights are bogus any place Abortion is legal PERIOD.

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Misterveritis said:

Don't get sucked in. Does anyone want to bet there is a provision in the declaration that says everyone has a right to all kinds of goodies, and that the rich should pay for them? In this case the rich meaning the United States, of course.

Pffft. We need to get the United Nations out of the United States. And then we need to get the US out of the UN.

Click to expand...

Why don't you either read the other 25 articles, or assess them as they get posted over the next five weeks...

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Viktyr Korimir said:

This is irrelevant to me, anyway. I'm opposed to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Click to expand...

Why? It is actually a pretty good outline of what basic rights should be and it is pretty widely accepted. You know the U.S. had a strong hand in its drafting and passage, don't you?

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Wiseone said:

Regarding homosexuals again, there are other organizations like the Boy Scouts for example which officially do not allow atheist or homosexual members yet they receive Federal Funding. Now I suppose if its a private group they can do as they please, but receiving Federal funding for discrimination irks me. Now since its a fairly decentralized organization, so its not like every chapter is the same. And to my shame I don't have a source, I found one but now I can't locate it again, so if you disbelief that I wouldn't blame you.

As for the criminal justice system, do you have any data on UK vs US crime rates? And kudos for the support of legalization of some drugs.

Click to expand...

:shrug: I don't think the relatively few and minor homosexual rights issues are enough to kick up that big of a fuss over, but opinions vary and I know you are sincere.

Yes, I have data on the Uk and US crime rates. It was quite a shocker for many people to find out that the UK is overall more violent than the US, at least by statistical comparison.

Violent crime in UK now higher than in the US - News - The Independent

The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S. | Mail Online

UK Is Violent Crime Capital of Europe :: American Renaissance News

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Kandahar said:

According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics there are approximately 70,000 reported prison rapes annually. And that's just the ones that are reported. Many people just want to serve their time and be left alone, not everyone is trying to "make their own hell." And the ones who do should be isolated from other prisoners.



But far fewer than what deal with OUR unjust system.



Far fewer than what deal with OUR unjust system.



Far fewer than what deal with OUR unjust system.



I'm not saying that we should look to these regimes as a model of human rights...but it's hard to claim any sort of moral high ground over them when our own criminal justice system is among the most barbaric in the world. I find it incredibly naive when people gasp in horror at the thought of Saudi police cutting off someone's hand for, say, stealing a car...yet you can receive a far worse penalty than that in the American justice system, such as being raped daily and locked in a cage for the rest of your life. The main difference is that we incarcerate a lot MORE people than those countries we look down on for their human rights records.

Click to expand...

All I can say is you quite amaze me, with your apples and oranges..... or firecrackers and nuclear bombs comparisons. I don't disagree that our prison system and justice system need reform, but to compare them to Iran, China and Saudi with a straight face is just.... remarkable.

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

ludahai said:

Why don't you either read the other 25 articles, or assess them as they get posted over the next five weeks...

Click to expand...

It is the United Nations. There is no need to go any further.

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

ludahai said:

Why? It is actually a pretty good outline of what basic rights should be and it is pretty widely accepted. You know the U.S. had a strong hand in its drafting and passage, don't you?

Click to expand...

It's based on a fundamentally flawed-- and dangerous-- moral premise, that all human beings are created equal. This belief has caused many problems over the past couple centuries.

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Viktyr Korimir said:

It's based on a fundamentally flawed-- and dangerous-- moral premise, that all human beings are created equal. This belief has caused many problems over the past couple centuries.

Click to expand...

Perhaps you are confusing the very reasonable "equal before the law" versus equality of outcomes in life. The first is fair and just. The second is not.

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Goshin said:

All I can say is you quite amaze me, with your apples and oranges..... or firecrackers and nuclear bombs comparisons. I don't disagree that our prison system and justice system need reform, but to compare them to Iran, China and Saudi with a straight face is just.... remarkable.

Click to expand...

OK, well let's suppose that you were convicted of grand theft auto. If you were given a choice, which would you pick for your punishment? A) Having your non-dominant hand cut off by a Saudi cop, B) Being locked in a cage for the rest of your life and raped daily in a California prison.

I'd certainly rather pick (A). And yes, those ARE plausible sentences in each of those jurisdictions, especially if it isn't someone's first offense. The US criminal justice system has NO moral high ground over almost anyone in the world when it comes to human rights abuses. It is horrid.

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Kandahar said:

OK, well let's suppose that you were convicted of grand theft auto.

Click to expand...

Highly improbable, as I am not a thief. Hint for avoiding imprisonment: don't steal **** that ain't yours.

If you were given a choice, which would you pick for your punishment? A) Having your non-dominant hand cut off by a Saudi cop, B) Being locked in a cage for the rest of your life and raped daily in a California prison.

Click to expand...

The latter is not a realistic expression of what would happen to you in America. You would not be given life imprisonment, unless this was your third related felony. Being raped daily while in prison is possible but hardly an absolute or part of the sentence. It will depend on many factors, not least of which is what prison you are sent to, which in part depends on your behavior. Behave yourself and you could be a in a well-ordered low-sec prison where violence is rare; act like an ass and you could end up in a hi-sec with the worst of the worst and yeah, you might end up someone's bitch if you're not tough enough.

Could we/should we do a better job of keeping prison inmates safe inside? Sure. Is it as bad as you're portraying? Not nearly. Also, when you lock the worst scum up together, as I say, they tend to make their own hell because that's how they are...

I'd certainly rather pick (A). And yes, those ARE plausible sentences in each of those jurisdictions, especially if it isn't someone's first offense. The US criminal justice system has NO moral high ground over almost anyone in the world when it comes to human rights abuses. It is horrid.

Click to expand...

Bah. You're overstating this matter by several orders of magnitude.

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Viktyr Korimir said:

It's based on a fundamentally flawed-- and dangerous-- moral premise, that all human beings are created equal. This belief has caused many problems over the past couple centuries.

Click to expand...

It does keep people nice and deluded though, while the powers that be get the real work done.

Sad, but true.

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

ludahai said:

Article 1.
• All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Click to expand...

I think America would earn an A in this area.

Article 2.
• Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Click to expand...

I would say America scores a C in this area due to the fact that we have legalized abortions.

Article 3.
• Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

Click to expand...

I would give America an F in this area due to allowing elective abortions and the blatant oppression of the right to life and security of person of human beings.

Article 4.
• No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.
Article 5.

Click to expand...

I say we earn an A here. We don't have slavery in this country.

• No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

Click to expand...

I say we earn a B in this area. Overall I would grade America with a C.

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Goshin said:

Highly improbable, as I am not a thief. Hint for avoiding imprisonment: don't steal **** that ain't yours.



The latter is not a realistic expression of what would happen to you in America. You would not be given life imprisonment, unless this was your third related felony. Being raped daily while in prison is possible but hardly an absolute or part of the sentence. It will depend on many factors, not least of which is what prison you are sent to, which in part depends on your behavior. Behave yourself and you could be a in a well-ordered low-sec prison where violence is rare; act like an ass and you could end up in a hi-sec with the worst of the worst and yeah, you might end up someone's bitch if you're not tough enough.

Could we/should we do a better job of keeping prison inmates safe inside? Sure. Is it as bad as you're portraying? Not nearly. Also, when you lock the worst scum up together, as I say, they tend to make their own hell because that's how they are...








Bah. You're overstating this matter by several orders of magnitude.

Click to expand...

I think you're glossing over the fact that the U.S. has many unnecessary laws, or laws whose punishment is disproportionate to the crime committed; or steep and severe punishments for non-violent crimes. A comparatively huge number of our population are in jail right now. Part of the reason is our unbalanced punitive model; another reason is the private incarceration system whose well being is tied to American economy and, in my locales, primary employment.

Our criminal justice system needs reform BADLY. This is not something that Kandahar is making up. Even Amnesty International has reported on the state of the U.S. system. We throw people in jail for obscure reasons; we punish people for laws broken that were not obvious in the first place. People in this country aren't even fully aware of some of the laws that can land them in jail because the laws were not created sensibly or the public is not sufficiently educated.

From here:
# 1 United States: 2,019,234 prisoners
# 2 China: 1,549,000 prisoners
# 3 Russia: 846,967 prisoners
# 4 India: 313,635 prisoners
# 5 Brazil: 308,304 prisoners

Per Capita
# 1 United States: 715 per 100,000 people
# 2 Russia: 584 per 100,000 people
# 3 Belarus: 554 per 100,000 people
# 4 Palau: 523 per 100,000 people
# 5 Belize: 459 per 100,000 people

I agree with you that some prisoners make their own hell, but you can't just generalize in all cases. The worst offenders need to be isolated and often times they are not until they commit a violent act openly against another inmate. Private acts of violence happen all the time in American prisons, including rape, intimidation, and gang related assault. The guards are often in on it. The fact is that American prisons are known the world over for being some of the worst. I work in a diplomatic field, and although what I do is not related to the justice system, I still have my finger on the pulse of the international community and this is one area where the message is consistently the same: avoid the American criminal justice system at all costs.

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Temporal said:

I think you're glossing over the fact that the U.S. has many unnecessary laws, or laws whose punishment is disproportionate to the crime committed; or steep and severe punishments for non-violent crimes. A comparatively huge number of our population are in jail right now. Part of the reason is our unbalanced punitive model; another reason is the private incarceration system whose well being is tied to American economy and, in my locales, primary employment.

Our criminal justice system needs reform BADLY. This is not something that Kandahar is making up. Even Amnesty International has reported on the state of the U.S. system. We throw people in jail for obscure reasons; we punish people for laws broken that were not obvious in the first place. People in this country aren't even fully aware of some of the laws that can land them in jail because the laws were not created sensibly or the public is not sufficiently educated.

From here:
# 1 United States: 2,019,234 prisoners
# 2 China: 1,549,000 prisoners
# 3 Russia: 846,967 prisoners
# 4 India: 313,635 prisoners
# 5 Brazil: 308,304 prisoners

Per Capita
# 1 United States: 715 per 100,000 people
# 2 Russia: 584 per 100,000 people
# 3 Belarus: 554 per 100,000 people
# 4 Palau: 523 per 100,000 people
# 5 Belize: 459 per 100,000 people

I agree with you that some prisoners make their own hell, but you can't just generalize in all cases. The worst offenders need to be isolated and often times they are not until they commit a violent act openly against another inmate. Private acts of violence happen all the time in American prisons, including rape, intimidation, and gang related assault. The guards are often in on it. The fact is that American prisons are known the world over for being some of the worst. I work in a diplomatic field, and although what I do is not related to the justice system, I still have my finger on the pulse of the international community and this is one area where the message is consistently the same: avoid the American criminal justice system at all costs.

Click to expand...

I do not disagree with you entirely. I think we DO have too many laws, and too many obscure laws with severe punishements that are NOT common-sense-everybody-knows-you-don't-do-that. Like it being potentially a felony to bring certain plants or animals into the country from outside.

As I've said, I also support the legalization of weed and its production and supply chain, and might consider other drugs that are not inherently too toxic. I was a footsoldier in the War On Some Drugs and I know that we lost that war a long time ago. I don't like the increased police-statism that the WoD has caused either.

Nor have I disputed that the system could be reformed and made better than it is.

What I dispute is that it as bad as Kandahar paints it; pretending that daily rape is automatic if incarcerated, pretending that our system is worse than Saud, Iran or China. That's just ludicrous.

Frankly many nations in the EU are FAR worse than we are about how they treat SUSPECTS. There are innumerable horror stories about the way that European police treat people accused of a crime.

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

ludahai said:

Article 1.
• All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Click to expand...

Lets break this up:

"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights." OK, no problem here.

"They are endowed with reason and conscience . . ." This is generally true.

" . . . and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood." FAIL.

Article 2.
• Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Click to expand...

Breaking this one down:

"Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status." This just says "we mean it, no exceptions". We got this down for the most part (various Indian Tribes are a special exception.)

"Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty." This statement cannot hold its water. It is the duty of government to hold distinguishments for people who are Citizens of a Country as apposed to those who are from a Foreign State. These distinguishments would include the disposition of said persons who face an Indictment or the ability to own real estate beyond say a home or a small business. (Given time I may think of other areas such should be.) I would give us a C here in part due to problems with the politicals in power allowing Illegals their continued presence here while requiring the Citizens to jump thru hoops that are quietly ignored for the Illegals.

Article 3.
• Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

Click to expand...

Notice that they did not say property or possessions or "pursuit of happiness" or "integrity of life" just their person. Thanks to the Supremes and the Professional Politicians each of these are under assault and being undermind.

Article 4.
• No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

Click to expand...

We have this down pat except when we do find these underground operations we do not execute the perpetrators.

Article 5.

• No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

Click to expand...

As mentioned elsewhere on the thread we do FAIL here. We have laws against Some Drugs that the Fed Govt at least should have no business attending to and draconian penalties for violators. Growing is the establishment of "thought crimes" which is often based on supposition and adds extra penalties to a violation of law.

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Misterveritis said:

It is the United Nations. There is no need to go any further.

Click to expand...

United Nations, which the US helped to create, was a very different creature in 1946 than it is today. The U.S. was instrumental in drafting the thirty articles of the Declaration of Human Rights. Such a statement denies the history of the document and shows that you are not going to even attempt to engage in critical thinking?

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Goshin said:

Highly improbable, as I am not a thief. Hint for avoiding imprisonment: don't steal **** that ain't yours.

Click to expand...

Unless you are suggesting that even petty criminals deserve whatever happens to them (which I assume you aren't since you acknowledged that our system needs some reform), then this is irrelevant.

The latter is not a realistic expression of what would happen to you in America. You would not be given life imprisonment, unless this was your third related felony.

Click to expand...

Oh, well as long as you stole THREE cars instead of one, then I guess spending your life in a cage and getting gangraped daily is perfectly acceptable. :roll:

Being raped daily while in prison is possible but hardly an absolute or part of the sentence. It will depend on many factors, not least of which is what prison you are sent to, which in part depends on your behavior. Behave yourself and you could be a in a well-ordered low-sec prison where violence is rare; act like an ass and you could end up in a hi-sec with the worst of the worst and yeah, you might end up someone's bitch if you're not tough enough.

Click to expand...

Sexual slavery and prison gangs are common even in medium security prisons...where a prisoner will usually end up if their sentence is 10+ years long (regardless of the severity of their actual crime, or whether they are violent).

Could we/should we do a better job of keeping prison inmates safe inside? Sure. Is it as bad as you're portraying? Not nearly.

Click to expand...

I think you have no idea how horrible our prisons are. In any case, the BJS statistics disagree with you...not to mention a casual glance at our incarceration rate, which is a huge problem in and of itself.

Also, when you lock the worst scum up together, as I say, they tend to make their own hell because that's how they are...

Click to expand...

Most people in prison just want to be left alone to serve their time without being attacked. Not everyone is a rapist or a murderer...and even many of those who are don't pose a danger to their fellow inmates. The ones who do should be separated.

Bah. You're overstating this matter by several orders of magnitude.

Click to expand...

If you don't believe the BJS statistics (which indicated that there were over 70,000 prison rapes *reported* annually), then just look at our simple incarceration rates. Even if the conditions in prison were acceptable, which they aren't, it is still grotesque how many people we incarcerate in the first place.

Re: overstating this matter by several orders of magnitude. I'm sure that Saudi officials who cut off people's hands, or Iranian officials who stone people to death could truthfully say exactly the same thing about THEIR systems.

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

digsbe said:

I I say we earn an A here. We don't have slavery in this country.

Click to expand...

Though legally prohibited, this statement is not true. There is slavery in the U.S. and just about every other country in the world, TODAY!

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

ludahai said:

United Nations, which the US helped to create, was a very different creature in 1946 than it is today. The U.S. was instrumental in drafting the thirty articles of the Declaration of Human Rights. Such a statement denies the history of the document and shows that you are not going to even attempt to engage in critical thinking?

Click to expand...

I have already engaged in critical thinking. If it originates in the United Nations it is automatically suspect. I will reject it.

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Misterveritis said:

I have already engaged in critical thinking. If it originates in the United Nations it is automatically suspect. I will reject it.

Click to expand...

That isn't critical thinking, that is reactionary actions without actually engaging in thought to assess the document and the history thereof...

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

ludahai said:

That isn't critical thinking, that is reactionary actions without actually engaging in thought to assess the document and the history thereof...

Click to expand...

I am not required to give you the history of my critical thinking. LOL.
The United Nations is a great place to spy at. I think it belongs in France. It does not belong in the US. Nor does the US belong in it.