Is an affair a dealbreaker

tessaesque said:

My first extremely passionate relationship involved a young man who I felt was meant to be my "forever". I did everything I knew how to do in that relationship, we rarely even bickered...He never mentioned he was lacking anything or needed anything more from me. I found out 18 months in that he had been cheating on me from about 2 months in. I was crushed, ended the relationship, tried to move on. Over the next two years I gave him a few chances, only to find out that he was either cheating on me, or using me (unwittingly) as the other woman. He simply couldn't be faithful...to anybody. Now he's married, but I have heard they are already in counseling for his infidelity. Go figure.

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Some people feel entitled to their infidelity and are unlikely to change.

BDBoop said:

[tilt] ... YES? Seriously? You would think you deserved to be cheated on because you got comfortable? If he didn't try to do anything to change the status quo, then his cheating is on HIM.

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I wouldnt say deserved is the correct word. What I am saying is... marriages fall apart for a lot of reasons. Cheating is generally just the straw that broke the camels back. Its generally the end result of a marriage that isnt "taken care of" or worked on. Not in all cases....such as the habitual cheater... but in a lot of cases. All I am saying is... it takes TWO to make a marriage work.

BamaBrat said:

I wouldnt say deserved is the correct word. What I am saying is... marriages fall apart for a lot of reasons. Cheating is generally just the straw that broke the camels back. Its generally the end result of a marriage that isnt "taken care of" or worked on. Not in all cases....such as the habitual cheater... but in a lot of cases. All I am saying is... it takes TWO to make a marriage work.

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Right. I just take exception to the way it was laid out, as in "I don't carry my part, he cheats. Et voila, logic."

BamaBrat said:

I wouldnt say deserved is the correct word. What I am saying is... marriages fall apart for a lot of reasons. Cheating is generally just the straw that broke the camels back. Its generally the end result of a marriage that isnt "taken care of" or worked on. Not in all cases....such as the habitual cheater... but in a lot of cases. All I am saying is... it takes TWO to make a marriage work.

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No offense, but your views are seriously ****ed up. I understand that infidelity can be a symptom of a marriage that is struggling. But more than anything else, infidelity is a symptom of a lack of internal character on the part of the cheater.

This blame the victim, we are both responsible for the person's cheating bull**** needs to be called out. Frankly, the non-cheater usually ISN'T responsible for the cheating, but they bear the brunt of it, regardless. When your spouse cheats, as mine did, you do blame yourself. You feel completely inadequate in every possible way, and it completely destroys not only your trust for other people, but also your trust in your own worth. I have owned his infidelity, I have carried the shame and pain of it around for years, but ultimately, he cheated because he's a cheater. He didn't cheat because of me, he cheated because of his own poor character.

I experienced the same marriage, including the neglect of the relationship, and frankly, far worse treatment at his hands than he experienced at mine, and yet, I didn't cheat.

Cheating may be a sign of a broken down marriage, but more than that, it is a symptom of a lack of character on the part of the cheater. That latter part is even more important than the former.

Not everyone cheats. And, short of extreme circumstances, there is zero justification for doing so, no matter how intolerable the marriage. Cheaters suffer from entitlement issues, and they are the scum of the earth, because not only do they cheat, but they do so knowing that they are risking the happiness of the people they ostensibly care more about than any other on earth (their spouse and children).

If the marriage is that ****ing intolerable, grow a ****ing set of balls and address the issues, openly and honestly. Lying, skulking around, and putting your sexual parts in contact with someone outside the marriage is an inherently selfish, evil act, and should be addressed accordingly.

I view an affair as a dealbreaker when it comes to marriage. However, I think the partners can certainly chose to keep their marriage and work through the hurt/offense. I think marriages can be healed after cheating, but I wouldn't tell someone that they are obligated to try and heal that marriage or stay with a cheater.

Some people blame themselves, when it really isn't their fault. Even if you aren't the perfect spouse that doesn't give your partner any right to cheat.

BDBoop said:

Right. I just take exception to the way it was laid out, as in "I don't carry my part, he cheats. Et voila, logic."

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Sorry, thats not quite what I meant. I guess what Im saying is.... If an affair happens and both parties can look at their marriage openly and honestly and see it for what it is.... and move forward TOGETHER to save it, then i believe a marriage can survive an affiar. If both parties arent working, only ONE is...such as the habitual cheater (cause they NEVER think its their fault), it cant really survive.

Redress said:

For me, yes. For others, it's up to them. There is no concrete answer to this, and no "one size fits all" answer.

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This sums it up for me. Depends on your agreements with the significant other, and the personalities of the people involved.

I don't really know how I would react if my husband cheated, but I lean toward staying and trying to work it out. The staying would depend on his willingness to actually want to work it out and what his extra-marital relationship brought into ours, i.e. emotional issues, diseases, psycho woman, etc.

My dad had most likely cheated on my mom at least once during their 20 years of marriage, but there really wasn't proof of it. I saw him kiss another woman when I was young, but did not want to hurt my mom by telling her. But my mom had her suspicions. My dad ended up leaving my mom with 4 children still at home, being picked up at the bus station by another woman that he brought over to my grandmother's house while my brother was there, blamed my mother, and her family, for everything, and got married to a different woman 4 days after their divorce was final. It hurt my mom and my father greatly regrets it now, 10 years later. I know that he would leave his wife in a heartbeat if my mother ever agreed to take him back, but she won't. The reason she won't is because of the blame he placed on her and her family, not the cheating or the leaving though.

I couldn't handle emotionally if my husband was using me to raise our kids and sleeping around. Nor could I stay if he picked up any STDs from his affairs.

I would not cheat on my husband because I saw how much my mom was hurt when my dad left. I don't want to hurt my husband in any way if I can avoid it and I don't want to be like my dad.

I wasnt blaming the victim in any way shape or form. The fact that someone cheated is THEIRS to deal with, its their fault, its theirs to own, its theirs to fix, its theirs to not fix. Im sorry if i didnt express myself well enough.

Looking at ones relationship honestly and openly takes two parties working together. If one party doesnt want to admit that they ****ed up by stickin their parts where it didnt belong, or to blame that on the other person, they ARENT WORKING openly and honestly to fix their marriage, thus the marriage probably wont survive. People **** up in all sorts of ways... if we cant talk about that with each other and admit our failings.....BOTH parties, but especially the cheater because he or she is the one that threw marital issues aside and went elsewhere.

roguenuke said:

I don't really know how I would react if my husband cheated, but I lean toward staying and trying to work it out. The staying would depend on his willingness to actually want to work it out and what his extra-marital relationship brought into ours, i.e. emotional issues, diseases, psycho woman, etc.

My dad had most likely cheated on my mom at least once during their 20 years of marriage, but there really wasn't proof of it. I saw him kiss another woman when I was young, but did not want to hurt my mom by telling her. But my mom had her suspicions. My dad ended up leaving my mom with 4 children still at home, being picked up at the bus station by another woman that he brought over to my grandmother's house while my brother was there, blamed my mother, and her family, for everything, and got married to a different woman 4 days after their divorce was final. It hurt my mom and my father greatly regrets it now, 10 years later. I know that he would leave his wife in a heartbeat if my mother ever agreed to take him back, but she won't. The reason she won't is because of the blame he placed on her and her family, not the cheating or the leaving though.

I couldn't handle emotionally if my husband was using me to raise our kids and sleeping around. Nor could I stay if he picked up any STDs from his affairs.

I would not cheat on my husband because I saw how much my mom was hurt when my dad left. I don't want to hurt my husband in any way if I can avoid it and I don't want to be like my dad.

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I have to give my exactlies right down the line on your post. Also /hugs.

BamaBrat said:

I wasnt blaming the victim in any way shape or form. The fact that someone cheated is THEIRS to deal with, its their fault, its theirs to own, its theirs to fix, its theirs to not fix. Im sorry if i didnt express myself well enough.

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You did fine, I thanked you on your last post. All is clear and understood, no worries.

BDBoop said:

If a partner cheats, should the relationship/marriage end (in your estimation.)

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In my case, no, it wasn't the deal breaker.

Even if we didn't have children, adultery is a symptom, not the problem itself. Sure there would have been trust issues, and a long healing process to follow, but I wanted to address those problems instead of simply jumping ship.

The deal breaker for me was when she started hiding the children from me; a behavior she continues today, and is why there can be no reconciliation even if either of us were seeking it.

Now that the marriage is over, various friends and family feel the need to tell me about how my X would occasionally brag about how she always had boyfriends on the side, and how she would mock me for being 'innocent', trying to be the good husband and keep the faith.

Funny how people like to wait to tell you those things.....

I always broke up with girlfriends who were unfaithful, but I could see a relationship surviving it. It would be a rare scenario, but not an impossible one.

Jerry said:

In my case, no, it wasn't the deal breaker.

Even if we didn't have children, adultery is a symptom, not the problem itself. Sure there would have been trust issues, and a long healing process to follow, but I wanted to address those problems instead of simply jumping ship.

The deal breaker for me was when she started hiding the children from me; a behavior she continues today, and is why there can be no reconciliation even if either of us were seeking it.

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That's a doozy. And I'm finding more and more men in your shoes, and it's hateful. She should be ashamed. How would she feel if somebody did that to her? My heart would shatter over losing my daughter 1000 times worse than over losing my ex.

Paschendale said:

I always broke up with girlfriends who were unfaithful, but I could see a relationship surviving it. It would be a rare scenario, but not an impossible one.

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It's imposable to cheat on a bf or gf, because there's no presumption of monogamy, no commitment or intent to commit in the first place. Their sex life is their business, so they're not even obligated to tell you. It would be polite, yes, but they're not required.

Jerry said:

In my case, no, it wasn't the deal breaker.

Even if we didn't have children, adultery is a symptom, not the problem itself. Sure there would have been trust issues, and a long healing process to follow, but I wanted to address those problems instead of simply jumping ship.

The deal breaker for me was when she started hiding the children from me; a behavior she continues today, and is why there can be no reconciliation even if either of us were seeking it.

Now that the marriage is over, various friends and family feel the need to tell me about how my X would occasionally brag about how she always had boyfriends on the side, and how she would mock me for being 'innocent', trying to be the good husband and keep the faith.

Funny how people like to wait to tell you those things.....

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That is basically what I was trying to say and did a crappy job of it. Adultery is usually the symptom, not the problem. If both parties dont fix the problem, marriages dont work... not because someone cheated, but because the problem wasnt worked on or fixed. Habitual jackasses are a totally different story, wont usually work because one party doesnt give a **** about the problem.

BDBoop said:

That's a doozy. And I'm finding more and more men in your shoes, and it's hateful. She should be ashamed. How would she feel if somebody did that to her? My heart would shatter over losing my daughter 1000 times worse than over losing my ex.

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She's doing it because she fears that's what I will do.

She's correct in that I'm going to take the children from her when I get back fro Afghan, but she will have as much contact as she desires. It would be great if she moved back to the aria and saw them every day after school. She and I can be civil together, so trips to the park with the kids, for example, aren't out of the question either.

But I know that's not going to happen. The moment I take the children, she will disappear, because she's a prescription drug addict, and paranoia is but one of her clinically diagnosed problems.

Jerry said:

It's imposable to cheat on a bf or gf, because there's no presumption of monogamy, no commitment or intent to commit in the first place. Their sex life is their business, so they're not even obligated to tell you. It would be polite, yes, but they're not required.

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Untrue. If you're playing the field, she's not your girlfriend. If she is, then you have made a decision together to date each other exclusively.

Jerry said:

She's doing it because she fears that's what I will do.

She's correct in that I'm going to take the children from her when I get back fro Afghan, but she will have as much contact as she desires. It would be great if she moved back to the aria and saw them every day after school. She and I can be civil together, so trips to the park with the kids, for example, aren't out of the question either.

But I know that's not going to happen. The moment I take the children, she will disappear, because she's a prescription drug addict, and paranoia is but one of her clinically diagnosed problems.

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But what you just described is not what she's doing to you. She's taken the children, you don't get to see them. You take the children, she does get to see them.

BDBoop said:

Untrue. If you're playing the field, she's not your girlfriend. If she is, then you have made a decision together to date each other exclusively.

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Well this is kind of a different issue and my position tends to rub people the wrong way.

Basically, if there's no ring of some kind on your finger, even if it's a 'friendship' ring I've seen on long-term gf's, then there are no rules. Since cheating is braking a rule to gain an advantage, if there are no rules, no act can be cheating.

Of course a healthy dose of communication is always recommended, and secrecy generally to be avoided, but being a player when you're not committed to anyone simply isn't 'cheating'. This is why I don't hold my X accountable for having other boyfriends before we were engaged. There was no presumption of monogamy, no commitment or intent to commit at that time.

Of course, where my dumb ass went wrong was in not realizing that her behavior wouldn't change with a wedding ceremony. She was who she was, and she was going to do what she was going to do. You can't plug a hole with a ring; crude but true.

BDBoop said:

But what you just described is not what she's doing to you. She's taken the children, you don't get to see them. You take the children, she does get to see them.

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That's basically the case I'm bringing before the judge. I think you boiled it down nicely.

BD Boop said:

If you believe that a woman cheating means a man failed, it has to follow that if a man cheats, a woman failed.

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Women are not the same as men, so this doesn't hold.

Some people are just cheating scum, and that is not the fault of the partner. Period.

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I don't know if I believe this, really. Regardless, I'd rather treat it as a failure on my part and figure out how to improve myself than blame it on someone else and be spiteful.

BamaBrat said:

an affair in the relationship is most times due to a failure of both parties, whether you want to acknowledge it or not. If each party acknowledges their part and works to fix the issues... it can work.

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I guess that depends on your idea of what a "working relationship" means. If I'm desperate enough I could go and find someone equally as desperate and "make it work". But just because two people remain together IMO that doesn't mean that it's "working".

More often than not relationships are built on desperation, which in my opinion isn't a working relationship.

Khayembii Communique said:

I guess that depends on your idea of what a "working relationship" means. If I'm desperate enough I could go and find someone equally as desperate and "make it work". But just because two people remain together IMO that doesn't mean that it's "working".

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Correct...just because a couple chooses to stay together, doesnt mean its working.

Khayembii Communique said:

I don't know if I believe this, really. Regardless, I'd rather treat it as a failure on my part and figure out how to improve myself than blame it on someone else and be spiteful.

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One does not automatically lead to the other.

Goshin said:

No, ma'am, not always.

I have found that there are some people that are just flat-out GOING TO CHEAT, no matter what. ... the only answer I have is "it appears to be their nature to always look for greener grass".

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What I've seen is "it appears to be their nature to always look for other grass". I't doesn't even have to have any possibility of being better grass. Men appear to have tendancy to do this. Some cultures even accomidate this, mostly quietly; and, typically for the rich men.