View Poll Results: has self defence gone too far in this instance?

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  • The defendant was guilty but should not have been imprisoned.

    3 7.89%
  • Defendant should be found innocent

    31 81.58%
  • Defendant was guilty and prison was the right result

    3 7.89%
  • Other

    1 2.63%
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Thread: When does self-defence go too far?

  1. #51
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    Re: When does self-defence go too far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I couldn't agree more. Obviously we need to ban assault'axes. Does anyone know if thus guy perchesed this axe from a licensed dealer, or did he use an axe-show loophole? This is just another example of why only the military, police and fire department need access to axes. Perhaps we can make some exceptions for hunting'axes, but you should still have to store your axe at the police department or hunting club.
    So sad Jerry. It's like you did not even read a word I wrote, and then made a totally nonsensical response. Please, if you are going to respond to me, at least make a slight effort to talk about what I wrote, and not something entirely unrelated and having nothing whatsoever to do with even the smallest portion of what I said.
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  2. #52
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    Re: When does self-defence go too far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    I'm not a huge fan of guns in general (for reasons of practicality, mostly - I think a lot of people have an inflated belief in their ability to use guns effectively in situations like this one) but you're right - if Axe man had used a gun and killed the guy, he wouldn't be going to prison.
    Apparently this guy did not have an inflated belief in his ability to use an axe effectively in situations like these.

    A part of proper gun use has to do with what gun you're using. Like my S&W .38 revolver; it's just meat and potatoes. Point n shoot. Since it's double-action-only there are no safeties to finger, because the gun can't accidentally discharge by being dropped, etc. That's the nature of double-action-only, which is why I got it. You have to pull the trigger, and it has a heavy trigger pull., too.

    I can just put it in my pocket and no one ever knows, it's there if I need it, it's out of the way if I don't.

  3. #53
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    Re: When does self-defence go too far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I couldn't agree more. Obviously we need to ban assault'axes. Does anyone know if thus guy perchesed this axe from a licensed dealer, or did he use an axe-show loophole? This is just another example of why only the military, police and fire department need access to axes. Perhaps we can make some exceptions for hunting'axes, but you should still have to store your axe at the police department or hunting club.
    If you ban axes, only criminals will have them...

  4. #54
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    Re: When does self-defence go too far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So sad Jerry. It's like you did not even read a word I wrote, and then made a totally nonsensical response. Please, if you are going to respond to me, at least make a slight effort to talk about what I wrote, and not something entirely unrelated and having nothing whatsoever to do with even the smallest portion of what I said.
    Oh, my bad, for once everyone was talking about actions taken by the perp and didn't simply focus on the item in his hand, and I got all discombobulated

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    Re: When does self-defence go too far?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    If you ban axes, only criminals will have them...
    According to OP, wrenches, screwdrivers, and crowbars are all "fighting weapons". Also, these gang-bangers were there to *assault* someone with their *weapons*, therefore wrenches, screwdrivers, and crowbars are all assault'weapons.

  6. #56
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    Re: When does self-defence go too far?

    I fervently believe and support the Castle Doctrine, which in the States means if six yobs (or one) busts into your house armed with weapons, and uninvited, you have a right to defend your home and family. The fact that entry was gained illegally puts the issue in your favor. In a number of states that is pretty much the law. You don't have to flee, you don't have to show an attempt on your part to get away. In many states in the U.S., if you enter into a home illegally you can count on getting your butt shot at or shot off.

    Now you can't walk around and execute them or anything like that. The point is that you are legally within your rights to neutralize the threat. With six armed assailants on you like white on rice how do you know exactly when it is time to back off? I'd say more power to your man with the ax.










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  7. #57
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    Re: When does self-defence go too far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Apparently this guy did not have an inflated belief in his ability to use an axe effectively in situations like these.

    A part of proper gun use has to do with what gun you're using. Like my S&W .38 revolver; it's just meat and potatoes. Point n shoot. Since it's double-action-only there are no safeties to finger, because the gun can't accidentally discharge by being dropped, etc. That's the nature of double-action-only, which is why I got it. You have to pull the trigger, and it has a heavy trigger pull., too.

    I can just put it in my pocket and no one ever knows, it's there if I need it, it's out of the way if I don't.
    If you're trained and knowledgeable, more power to you. However, I get the impression that a lot of people who contemplate defending themselves with guns tend to create idealized scenarios for how that would work. Actual assaults tend to be a little more complicated and sometimes (maybe mostly) involve aspects that we can't really anticipate or plan for.

  8. #58
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    Re: When does self-defence go too far?

    He was certainly right to defend himself, but the line between self defense and assault can become blurred, as it seems to have in this case. Without knowing more details, it's impossible to say whether the jury made the right decision.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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    Re: When does self-defence go too far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    If you're trained and knowledgeable, more power to you. However, I get the impression that a lot of people who contemplate defending themselves with guns tend to create idealized scenarios for how that would work. Actual assaults tend to be a little more complicated and sometimes (maybe mostly) involve aspects that we can't really anticipate or plan for.
    Ahh the plot thickens.

    Jason Bowman didn't have a firearm at his disposal because he and his 53 y/o wife are both felons; Delivery of a Controlled Substance, Methamphetemine; and Conspiracy to Deliver a Controlled Substance.

    This explains keeping an axe next to the TV, also. Very good.


    ***
    But, yeah, you don't need any training to effectively use a lot of firearms. A simple model and few boxes at a range and you know everything there is to know because there's not much to it.

    In fact, the simplicity of firearms is why nobles didn't want peasants to have them, originally. It would take years of dedicated training to become proficient with the sword or bow, but literally just anyone cold pick up a firearm and use it effectively.

    Like this one: Jerry's Album: Forbidden Love

    ...it's not complicated...at all....the bullets go here, point, shoot....that's all there is to it.

  10. #60
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    Re: When does self-defence go too far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Ahh the plot thickens.

    Jason Bowman didn't have a firearm at his disposal because he and his 53 y/o wife are both felons; Delivery of a Controlled Substance, Methamphetemine; and Conspiracy to Deliver a Controlled Substance.

    This explains keeping an axe next to the TV, also. Very good.


    ***
    But, yeah, you don't need any training to effectively use a lot of firearms. A simple model and few boxes at a range and you know everything there is to know because there's not much to it.

    In fact, the simplicity of firearms is why nobles didn't want peasants to have them, originally. It would take years of dedicated training to become proficient with the sword or bow, but literally just anyone cold pick up a firearm and use it effectively.

    Like this one: Jerry's Album: Forbidden Love

    ...it's not complicated...at all....the bullets go here, point, shoot....that's all there is to it.
    This is exactly what I'm getting at. That's all there is to effectively using a firearm, sure, but it's not necessarily the case that that's what would happen if you attempted to use a firearm while assaulted. It might get knocked out of your hand before you get a chance to fire, you might fire, but miss, and inadvertently shoot someone walking down the street outside of your house, etc. My point is simply that there are risks involved that might create extremely bad results. I'm not suggesting that these risks necessarily outweigh the potential self-defense benefits of carrying (or at least owning) a firearm, but they do merit some serious thought.

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