View Poll Results: Should Eric Holder face charges for Operation Fast and Furious?

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  • Yes, it was treason resulting in the death of an agent.

    16 66.67%
  • Yes, he should face jail time for this unauthorized operation.

    6 25.00%
  • No, but he should be forced to resign and investigated

    1 4.17%
  • No, the attorney general is above the law

    1 4.17%
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Thread: Should Eric Holder face charges?

  1. #1
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    Should Eric Holder face charges?

    Operation Fast and Furious was an operation run by the ATF to purposely get weapons in the hands of Mexican drug cartels. There was no way of following these weapons, and in fact there was apparently no part of the operation that would bring about a positive result for getting these weapons across the border.

    Already, at least one border agent has been killed by one of these weapons.

    Obama has claimed plausible deniability and says that Holder came up with the operation and ran it and Obama had no previous knowledge of the operation before one of the ATF agents blew the whistle on it.

    So, with the Attorney General running secret operations to sell US weapons to Mexican drug cartels for no beneficial reason resulting in the death of a border agent, what should be the consequences?
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    Re: Should Eric Holder face charges?

    I'm going to have to hear all the details before I pass judgement. However, I very much disliked Holder BEFORE this got public so at the very least, I hope the US can be rid of him as attorney general.
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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    Re: Should Eric Holder face charges?

    Any articles on this you can link us to?
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    Re: Should Eric Holder face charges?

    Do you have any information on the purpose of Fast and Furious? I can think of a couple of scenarios in which it would be legitimate statecraft, and the death of that agent-- however tragic-- an acceptable loss.

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    Re: Should Eric Holder face charges?

    Eric Holder is a traitor, and should be treated as such. He should be sentenced to hard labor for life, at our toughest, meanest, Federal prison, if such a thing exists.
    NOTICE: I am not a troll, because what I write I believe, and I have no intention of derailing threads or manipulating human nature. I am not a terrorist, because I do not endorse the killing of innocent people, and I am not here to promote violence. I AM HERE ONLY TO EXPRESS MY PERSONAL OPINION AND ENJOY LIVELY DISCUSSION.

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    Re: Should Eric Holder face charges?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElCid View Post
    Eric Holder is a traitor, and should be treated as such. He should be sentenced to hard labor for life, at our toughest, meanest, Federal prison, if such a thing exists.
    Wtffffffffffffff

    Anyways friday can you give information on this?
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    Re: Should Eric Holder face charges?

    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    There was no way of following these weapons, and in fact there was apparently no part of the operation that would bring about a positive result for getting these weapons across the border.
    This is patently false.

    House Panel Slams 'Fast and Furious' Gun Operation Tied to Border Agent's Death - FoxNews.com

    What happened was that the ATF did an undercover operation in which they would let weapons that they the bullet rifling pattern recorded be sold by illegal arms dealers, primarily to Mexico. What they wanted to do with this was to be able to track down the flow of illegal weapons sales.

    They wanted to try to track these sales to the top people in illegal cartels so they could pursue further law enforcement operations against them and get rid of them.

    Unfortunately, the ATF went too long in not going after the people that eventually got ahold of the weapons. This has led to deaths, especially the death of a border guard.

    This is what the issue, minus the hyperbole, is all about.
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    Re: Should Eric Holder face charges?

    Regarding your poll, it's the height of hyperbole as well.

    I don't think Eric Holder should face any charges, but not because he's above the law.

    Rather he shouldn't face any charges because he didn't do anything illegal.

    "Operation Fast and Furious" was part of an undercover operation. Contraband, such as illegal weapons and illegal drugs, among other things, get routinely sold by law enforcement agencies to criminal organizations as a part of such operations. This is done to track the illegal sales of these items so that law enforcement agencies can get all of the criminals involved in these enterprises.

    Some times Bad Things happen as a result of such operations. However, that's the way things go. It is incredibly unfortunate that people have lost their lives because of those weapons. However, if those criminals did not get those weapons from the undercover operation they would have likely gotten those weapons some other way. I can only hope that the operation will allow the ATF to shut down the illegal arms rings involved and put them in jail for a seriously long time.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  9. #9
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    Re: Should Eric Holder face charges?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    This is patently false.

    House Panel Slams 'Fast and Furious' Gun Operation Tied to Border Agent's Death - FoxNews.com

    What happened was that the ATF did an undercover operation in which they would let weapons that they the bullet rifling pattern recorded be sold by illegal arms dealers, primarily to Mexico. What they wanted to do with this was to be able to track down the flow of illegal weapons sales.

    They wanted to try to track these sales to the top people in illegal cartels so they could pursue further law enforcement operations against them and get rid of them.

    Unfortunately, the ATF went too long in not going after the people that eventually got ahold of the weapons. This has led to deaths, especially the death of a border guard.

    This is what the issue, minus the hyperbole, is all about.
    The referenced link includes the following:

    Findings from the preliminary report include:

    -- Agents expected to interdict weapons, yet were told to stand down and “just surveil.” Agents therefore did not act. They watched straw purchasers buy hundreds of weapons illegally and transfer those weapons to unknown third parties and stash houses.

    -- ATF agents complained about the strategy of allowing guns to walk in Operation Fast and Furious. Leadership ignored their concerns. Instead, supervisors told the agents to “get with the program” because senior ATF officials had sanctioned the operation.

    -- Agents knew that given the large numbers of weapons being trafficked to Mexico, tragic results were a near certainty.

    -- Operation Fast and Furious contributed to the increasing violence and deaths in Mexico. This result was regarded with "giddy" optimism by ATF supervisors hoping that guns recovered at crime scenes in Mexico would provide the nexus to straw purchasers in Phoenix.

    That last finding is sure to anger Mexico, which has so far been muted in its criticism. In a March 2010 memo, ATF says it allowed gun smugglers to buy 359 guns while 958 people died in Mexico the same month. Internally, the agency was "trumpeting up the violence that was occurring as a result of an ATF sanctioned program."

    This sort of operation was, thank God, far outside of my own LE experiences. I wouldn't have wanted any part in it.

    Yes, sometimes contraband is allowed to change hands in order to get convictions further up the food chain. The idea is to eventually recover the contraband, at least in most operations I've heard about, and to have a viable plan of doing so.

    Calling this treason appears to be way over the top, IMO. An ill-concieved, ill-planned, ill-conducted total cluster-****, yes. Treason... no. Certain idiots need to lose their jobs over this, sure.

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    Re: Should Eric Holder face charges?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    ...Yes, sometimes contraband is allowed to change hands in order to get convictions further up the food chain. The idea is to eventually recover the contraband, at least in most operations I've heard about, and to have a viable plan of doing so.

    Calling this treason appears to be way over the top, IMO. An ill-concieved, ill-planned, ill-conducted total cluster-****, yes. Treason... no. Certain idiots need to lose their jobs over this, sure.
    I agree with this. Based on what I've read and heard on the news about this, there wasn't anything illegal about the plan itself, and there probably wasn't anything illegal in the fact that it turned into a giant cluster-****. There may have been some illegalities after the fact to cover up said cluster-****, and if so the people involved should be prosecuted.

    Damn sure whoever was in charge of supervising this abyssmal mess should be fired.

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