View Poll Results: Do you believe democratic elections in Iraq were a harbringer of the Arab Spring?

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  • Probably, Yes

    6 17.14%
  • Perhaps yes, but one of many factors

    14 40.00%
  • Definately no

    14 40.00%
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    1 2.86%
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Thread: Do you believe democratic elections in Iraq were a harbringer of the Arab Spring?

  1. #31
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    Re: Do you believe democratic elections in Iraq were a harbringer of the Arab Spring?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    No. When it comes to the actions of the protesters in Tunisia, I highly doubt that they took the events going on in Iraq more into account than the events that were going on in their own country. The Arab Spring was pretty much spontaneous. I believe there was a domino effect, but it started in Tunisia, not Iraq.

    I believe that both people who say that Bush destabilized the region by going into Iraq, and people who say that Iraqi elections inspired the Arab Spring, are incorrect. Social unrest, being fed up with dictatorships, food prices going through the roof, high unemployment, the use of social media, all of these factors contributed way more to the bubble bursting than what was happening in Iraq.
    This makes a hell of a lot more sense than what the conservatives are spewing.
    But I do think that Mr Bush, the younger, accelerated the progress of man by invading Iraq, but, at a cost (to us) too great.

  2. #32
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    Re: Do you believe democratic elections in Iraq were a harbringer of the Arab Spring?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    This makes a hell of a lot more sense than what the conservatives are spewing.
    But I do think that Mr Bush, the younger, accelerated the progress of man by invading Iraq, but, at a cost (to us) too great.
    This real issue with the invasion is that he let it grow and grow - far beyond the original intent or purose.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Do you believe democratic elections in Iraq were a harbringer of the Arab Spring?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElCid View Post
    The Arabs only want TWO things: Islamic theocracy and BLOOD.
    Not true.
    To categorize all Arabs (or any society) is stupid, much that same as we did to the Italians or the Irish.
    Yes, there are extremists, and this is the problem.
    Education, social networking, knowledge will lessen this hateful extremism..

  4. #34
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    Re: Do you believe democratic elections in Iraq were a harbringer of the Arab Spring?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    This real issue with the invasion is that he let it grow and grow - far beyond the original intent or purose.
    It's what he thought it took to do the job right. The problem was that the original plan was half-assed to begin with.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  5. #35
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    Re: Do you believe democratic elections in Iraq were a harbringer of the Arab Spring?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    It's what he thought it took to do the job right. The problem was that the original plan was half-assed to begin with.
    The original plan - *snark* there WAS no original plan worth speaking of. It went like this . . . . "oh, he's renigged on our stupid little agreement. . . we'll now invade his country with our troops . . . oh LOOK! How convenient . . . . now we'll send MORE people over and stay around way too damn long . . . "

    that's it - the whole shebang summed up right there.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
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  6. #36
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    Re: Do you believe democratic elections in Iraq were a harbringer of the Arab Spring?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    There isn't anything that you couldn't argue about or find an excuse for.
    Sure. Lots of your positions are not based on facts. Therefore I couldn't argue them either way as their foundation doesn't exist. A good argument, including counterfactuals rely upon a foundation of solid facts. Therefore, there is plenty I couldn't argue about or find an excuse for.

    No doubt you could find a way to show that Obama caused it to happen. He's the Messiah, it must have been him right?
    You clearly must be mistaking me for someone who actually likes (and voted for) Obama. Or you are a massive hack who ignored my numerous posts detailing how Obama is little more then Bush's third term.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  7. #37
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    Re: Do you believe democratic elections in Iraq were a harbringer of the Arab Spring?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    However, the same groups that funded the core groups that were involved in the Orange Revolution and the Rose revolution were active in Tunisia and in Egypt, providing the same sort of training and organization building.

    As for common identity, would not the chaos, death, destruction and interal displacement that took place in Iraq be more of a warning against democracy then for it. Afterall life in Tunisia was better then life in Iraq at the time of the revolution in Tunisia
    Not necessarily, especially given that the situation has improved markedly in recent years. Furthermore, while many of us in the West and in the East Asian democracies tend to take democracy for granted (amazing that after only 15 years of democracy, Taiwanese are already taking it for granted) it is a powerful lure for many people, for all of its imperfections. The ability to express yourself and make your own choices is a powerful lure.
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  8. #38
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    Re: Do you believe democratic elections in Iraq were a harbringer of the Arab Spring?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    The original plan - *snark* there WAS no original plan worth speaking of. It went like this . . . . "oh, he's renigged on our stupid little agreement. . . we'll now invade his country with our troops . . . oh LOOK! How convenient . . . . now we'll send MORE people over and stay around way too damn long . . . "

    that's it - the whole shebang summed up right there.
    To be fair...that's not very convenient at all. It just sounds like a stupid thing to want to do, both rationally and politically.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  9. #39
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    Re: Do you believe democratic elections in Iraq were a harbringer of the Arab Spring?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    To be fair...that's not very convenient at all. It just sounds like a stupid thing to want to do, both rationally and politically.
    Exactly.

    10 9 8
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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