View Poll Results: If it was Nazi Germany all over again, America should

Voters
61. You may not vote on this poll
  • Butt in

    43 70.49%
  • Butt out

    7 11.48%
  • Specifically ......

    7 11.48%
  • No clue

    4 6.56%
Page 13 of 26 FirstFirst ... 3111213141523 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 256

Thread: If

  1. #121
    Sage
    Infinite Chaos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Last Seen
    11-19-17 @ 06:45 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    14,858

    Re: If

    Quote Originally Posted by lewstherin View Post
    no. i completely acknowledge that jews, christians, gypsies and communists were exterminated at these facilities. i'm merely asserting the numbers have been exaggerated.
    and anyone with even 1/2 a brain could look at the circumstance, and comprehend what i'm asserting.
    Before I ask (I think Bhodisattva has been waiting too) for your evidence - can you clarify what you mean by "these facilities?"

    I will repeat that Auschwitz was not the only camp where jews and others were killed and that nobody has tried saying 12 million died there. Please clarify exactly what you are asserting if that was not what you were disagreeing.

  2. #122
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Last Seen
    07-19-17 @ 03:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    60,458

    Re: If

    I honestly don't buy the numbers that have been released either. I don't have any proof, but I can't figure how they could manage it.

  3. #123
    Sage
    Infinite Chaos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Last Seen
    11-19-17 @ 06:45 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    14,858

    Re: If

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    They only murdered six million Jews because that's where the Allies stopped them. I would have allowed them to murder a lot more, just like we allowed the Hutus to murder a million Tutsis. I would have let them murder all of the Jews if it would have led to the early defeat of the Soviet Union and our unopposed supremacy over the entire planet.
    That is a pretty awful thing to say Viktyr. There is no "just like" either: the world knew about the Hutus but it was wrangling and procrastination in the UN which stopped any action to prevent the slaughter.

    I would argue that the Allies knew relatively early about what the Nazis were up to - as early as 1942 but the Simon Wiesenthal Centre seems to say that nobody really understood the implications or believed until they got to the camps

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    There are no historical facts that suggest that anyone, outside of the Jewish community in Europe and the Nazi high command, knew that the death camps and concentration camps--yes, there's a difference--even existed.

    There is tons of evidence that prove that Allied forces were totally unaware of the camps, until they stumbled upon them in 1945.
    36 Questions About the Holocaust (19-29)

    America and the Holocaust - My Jewish Learning

    During 1942, reports of a Nazi plan to murder all the Jews--including details on methods, numbers, and locations--reached Allied and neutral leaders from many sources, including the underground Jewish Socialist Bund party in the Warsaw ghetto; Gerhard Riegner, the representative in Geneva of the World Jewish Congress; and the eyewitness accounts of Polish underground courier Jan Karski and of 69 Polish Jews who reached Palestine in a civilian prisoner exchange between Germany and Britain in November. On December 17, 1942, the Allies issued a proclamation condemning the "extermination" of the Jewish people in Europe and declared that they would punish the perpetrators.
    The tragic fate that befell the Polish people, decimated by the foe, is now compounded by the monstrous, planned slaughter of the Jews that has been carried on in our country for nearly a year. These mass murders are without precedent in the history of the world, and all the cruelties known to man pale beside them. Infants, children, young people, men and women, whether of Catholic or of the Hebrew faith, are being mercilessly murdered, poisoned by gas, buried alive, thrown out of windows onto the pavements belowfor no other reason but that they are Jewish; even before death, they suffer the tortures of slow agony, the hell of humiliation and torment, the cynical sadism of their executioners. More than a million victims have already been slaughtered, and their number grows with each passing day.

    --The Directorate of Civil Resistance 1941

  4. #124
    Rogue Graffias's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Midwest U.S
    Last Seen
    08-26-15 @ 07:34 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    924

    Re: If

    Stay out. We should have followed Lindbergh's advice and not gotten involved in the first place. Britain should have allowed Germany a free hand in the East so Stalin could have been kept at bay.

  5. #125
    Sage
    Infinite Chaos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Last Seen
    11-19-17 @ 06:45 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    14,858

    Re: If

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    -- I don't have any proof, but I can't figure how they could manage it --
    Read the historians, check some history watch some interviews however this semi-denial / negotiation of numbers is distracting from the thread

  6. #126
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    12,419
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: If

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    There are two schools of thought on this matter: one focuses on the man, one on the "tides of history".

    One theory says it is the man, the dictator, the Hitler, who makes Nazi Germany (or whatever regime/nation) what it is.

    Another theory says that when the tides of history, the forces of collective will, economic conditions, political trends, and so on, come together in such a manner, that some suitable leader will step forward to claim the mantle and ride the tide to conquest... the details might vary, but there would be war and atrocity all the same.

    I'm not sure I entirely buy either argument... but if you assassinate one dictator, there's a very good chance that someone in his top-tier of advisors will simply step into his shoes and very likely continue similar policies for similar reasons.

    In this sense, assassination is much less decisive than winning a war. Once you win a war the whole nation is no longer capable of fighting against you anymore... no one will be stepping into anyone's shoes with the same problems and resources inclining him to act the same.
    During my much more revolutionary youth, when considering the question of what one person could do jf it appeared necessary to do something, assasination kept coming up.

    Pick the worst offenders, end them.

    Now when I told anybody this I got pretty much the same responses I got here.

    The instability mentioned in the thread is a potential factor, but I don't believe it would be as intense as most people think. There was a million dollar bounty on HW Bush and apparently nobody even tried to collect. I'm sure Al Quaeda or other terrorist organizations would love to assasinate various leaders but don't as far as I know and the assassin willing to give his life cannot be defended against.

    As to someone stepping right into a targets shoes, this is true. But it won't be the BEST one. Often only the right person CAN do what might draw an assassins attentions. You might have to go through a couple of leaders until no one was left that is capable of perpetrating the offenses being addressed, but I don't consider it impossible.

    As a person who believes that those who rule should do so with the consent of the governed, I think the governed should reserve this right.

    And those who KNOW they are doing wrong should live in constant fear. I can't think of a better deterrent to being a dick.

    As I've gotten older, I've come to the conclusion that the best punishment for these types is to take everything away from them and then make them live with the loss of everything that matters to them.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  7. #127
    Educator lewstherin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Last Seen
    10-28-11 @ 02:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    719

    Re: If

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Before I ask (I think Bhodisattva has been waiting too) for your evidence - can you clarify what you mean by "these facilities?"

    I will repeat that Auschwitz was not the only camp where jews and others were killed and that nobody has tried saying 12 million died there. Please clarify exactly what you are asserting if that was not what you were disagreeing.
    auschwitz and treblinka were the "death camps". i already mentioned treblinka, too. and someone on this thread DID mention 12 million.
    “The ideal form of government is democracy tempered with assassination.”
    http://www.indylevee.com/

  8. #128
    Sage
    Infinite Chaos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Last Seen
    11-19-17 @ 06:45 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    14,858

    Re: If

    Quote Originally Posted by lewstherin View Post
    auschwitz and treblinka were the "death camps". i already mentioned treblinka, too. and someone on this thread DID mention 12 million.
    If the chronology of this thread is to be believed - you were the one who mentioned aushwitz and treblinka here in response to Viktyr Korimir who simply mentioned that he would have let the Nazi's kill more than 6 million jews.

    I think in response to you, Bodisattva mentioned the 12 million dead but he did not say it was 12 million jews.

    Does your post thus mean you acknowledge you either went down a red herring track of your own making or were you being disengenuous all along?

  9. #129
    Educator lewstherin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Last Seen
    10-28-11 @ 02:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    719

    Re: If

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    If the chronology of this thread is to be believed - you were the one who mentioned aushwitz and treblinka here in response to Viktyr Korimir who simply mentioned that he would have let the Nazi's kill more than 6 million jews.

    I think in response to you, Bodisattva mentioned the 12 million dead but he did not say it was 12 million jews.

    Does your post thus mean you acknowledge you either went down a red herring track of your own making or were you being disengenuous all along?
    no, it acknowledges that i meant what i said. there is no way physically possible that millions of people were killed in those camps
    in a 3 year period with the limited space and resources of those facilities.
    “The ideal form of government is democracy tempered with assassination.”
    http://www.indylevee.com/

  10. #130
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: If

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    Did Nazi Germany pose any kind of a threat to the US?
    Japan attacked us and Germany declared war against us.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

Page 13 of 26 FirstFirst ... 3111213141523 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •