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Should English be declared the official language of the United States?

Should English be declared the official language of the United States?

  • Total voters
    79
Goshin said:
Bud, what happened 200-300 yrs ago is moot now. I'm talking about what is going on NOW. We need a common language. It isn't going to be Lakota, sorry; not enough people speak it.


And don't tell me I don't care about Native issues; I've got enough Cherokee and Creek in my ancestry that people sometimes notice and ask me about it.
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At one point,wasn't the language spoken by your ancestors the dominant language of their territory?
Did they require the European settlers to speak their language?
Did they try to assimulate as a whole?
Learn the language of the Cherokee/Creek as a whole
Or did they just kick your ancestors off their land like they did mine.

And that seems to be the root of the issue isn't it.
The fear of others doing to modern Americans what was done to the natives 200 to 300 years ago.
It might be moot point,but was it right what was done to our ancestors?

There is a big difference between having some ancestors that were Indian,and being half Indian.Such as myself.
I'm wondering,did you grow up on a reservation,did you go to a government Boarding school?
I grew up on the Wazi Ahanhan Oyaŋke (Pineridge Lakota ) "Res" in South Dakota in the '70's, I saw with my own eyes what the affects of 200-300 years have done. Try telling the poor of that region it's "moot point".
I remember as a little kid what happened at Wounded Knee in the 70's
I am relearning a language that was forcibly denied me as a child by our own government.

Like I've stated before on a previous post,there is a danger of an "Official Language" being turned into a "Forced Language". and that can easilly slide into a Forced Religion,and a Forced Ideology.

I've seen it happen.
 
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ludahai said:
A national official language would, of course, not be applicable to tribal lands as they have autonomy.
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Are you going to guarantee me that those lands will always be autonomous?
Our government doesn't exactly have a great track record in keeping treaties with the tribes.
I wonder how autonomous those tribes would be if gas starts hitting 6,7,8,9,10dollars a gallon,and oil was found underneath them.
 
Goshin said:
We have a large and growing group of immigrants, mainly hispanic, mostly from Mexico; many of whom are here illegally; many of whom are not intrested in assimilating and "Becoming American" but simply reaping the benefits of our system; many of whom are making little or no effort to learn English.

How do you get by in a country when you don't speak the most common lanugage? Answer: you hang out with those who speak YOUR language; do biz with them, work for them, identify with them. It is yet another way of creating schizm within the nation, where you have a large and growing group who does not identify with the mainstream culture at all, doesn't speak the language, and doesn't really care as long as we bend over backwards to accomodate THEM.

Too much of this and we really will become "Two Americas"... or three, or four, etc.

Maintaining a sense of "we're all Americans" can be difficult enough in the diversity that this nation has.... lacking the ability to SPEAK to each other is a good way to finish off any sense of fellow-citizenship that might have grown between this and that group.

When you walk into the middle of a group of people who are speaking a language you don't know, what is your gut reaction? Do you think of them as fellow Americans, or assume they are "other", "alien", "foreigners"? Most people assume the latter. There's a reason for that.

How do you deal with people with whom you cannot communicate? They don't speak your language and you don't speak theirs? The truth is, most of the time you shrug and walk on. Since you can't communicate with them, your ability to interact with them is severely limited.

That's no way for the citizenry of a nation to live, unable to communicate. That's why we need a common language. The proliferation of immigrants both legal and not who are NOT assimiliating is why we need to make it official.
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Excellent post. The bolded part is exactly the problem, in a nutshell, that we are seeing now all over the country. People do not have to learn English because everything they need is provided to them in their own language. It is creating population microcosms based upon common language, and those microcosms do not identify with the nation as a whole. Also, these microcosms are, unlike previous large influx immigrations, multi-generational. This has already created a major divide between populations which can only get worse as time goes on.
 
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Verthaine said:
Are you going to guarantee me that those lands will always be autonomous?
Our government doesn't exactly have a great track record in keeping treaties with the tribes.
I wonder how autonomous those tribes would be if gas starts hitting 6,7,8,9,10dollars a gallon,and oil was found underneath them.
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I personally can't guarantee it, but I would support a Constitutional amendment to that affect if you and other American Indian activists saw fit to push for it.

However, for the most part, in recent decades, the autonomy seems to be largely in tact...
 
Risky Thicket said:
Ahhh, that didn't take long. So it's about those bean eating Mexicans. Maybe people wouldn't hate them so much if they'd learn a little bit about their language and culture.

Are you demanding those damned injuns learned to speak "white" as well?
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Didn't take much to be called racist either.
 
ludahai said:
I am asking this question because of an ongoing discussion .

here.

Should English be declared the official language of the United States?
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No. If people want to learn it, they'll learn it. If they don't, they won't. The end.
 
Goshin said:
I don't know how many ways to say this: A nation needs a common tongue. It needs ONE language that everyone is supposed to be able to speak, at least well enough to hold a conversation.
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And I don't know how many ways to say this: None of that is predicated on English being the official language.

Goshin said:
I am concerned that the rise in "diversity" and "accomodation" is going to water it down to the point where English is no longer the nation's common tongue,
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What rise in diversity and accommodation are you talking about? We've always had English as a de facto national language, we've always had immigrants from non-English speaking countries, we've always had some first-generation immigrants who didn't or couldn't learn English, and we've always had second-generation immigrants fully assimilate into American culture and speak English. This has been the case for over 200 years. So what exactly has changed that has you so worried?

and where we have people who are both American citizens who can't talk to each other and feel alienated from one another.
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Except that isn't going to happen, and never has...despite English never being the official language.

Diversity of culture is difficult, but I think we can remain a nation and deal with it. Diversity of language, to the point where half the citizenry can't speak with the other half, will likely destroy us as a nation.
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I don't disagree...now why does English need to be the official language in order to prevent that from happening, when it has never been a problem?
 
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BDBoop said:
Okay? Everybody is different. How old were they when they immigrated? Did they immigrate to a city? Mine landed on a farm in Swan River, MN. The kids spoke English at school and Finnish at home.
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Did you have to eat those gawd awful lute fish?
 
DiAnna said:
Just because she couldn't speak English does not mean she is here illegally. Many immigrate legally and have difficulty learning the language, particularly Spanish-speakers because as I've pointed out they can get everything they need from tv/radio to restaurants to retail establishments, all of which are bilingual. In too many places one cannot even get an entry level job at a fast food joint or a WalMart without being bilingual. That is what chaps my hide. But I do not presume that any non-English-speaking Latinas (females are Lantina, males are Latino) are automatically illegal. That would be terribly unfair to those who have come here legally on work visas.

Chances are that her daughter is a US citizen, and the welfare card you saw is to support the child. I understand where you're coming from here. I too result the ease with which illegals using stolen ID's can head straight for the welfare office, which btw is forbidden by law to ask about immigration status, to stick their hands in the taxpayers' pocket. Just cautioning you about presuming that everyone who can't speak English must be illegal. I know for a fact that is untrue. :)
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Cant speak a lick of English? Learn it or get out. But I agree with you 70%.
 
What would be the implications of having a national language? I don't think it is the role of the federal government to determine a language for the US. If a state wants to declare a language, that is fine with me. However, I don't think the federal government can tell the states what language is the official language. Now, if the federal government chooses to do legal proceedings, paper work, etc in English then I have no problem with that.

I will say on a personal note, if I move to another country who speaks a different language, I will do whatever is necessary to learn that language. I also would find it unreasonable to expect people to adapt to me.
 
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Risky Thicket said:
LOL! I imagine that happens to you a lot.
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My post was about language. I could of used French or German in exactly the same way and you wouldn't have come at me with this ridiculous accusation. Using Spanish though is so racist. :roll: You need to check your arguments before you make them.
 
ludahai said:
I personally can't guarantee it, but I would support a Constitutional amendment to that affect if you and other American Indian activists saw fit to push for it.
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To paraphrase my grandma " A law makes a poor shield against a bullet".

Given the history of both my families ancestry,(and this country's) history,it is understandable why I am skeptical of Making English an Official Language.
Last I check,the Constitution is being torn to shreds,or at least that' what I hear both the liberals and the conservatives say.
There is absolutely no guarantee other then,"we promise to honor the treaty" to prevent wholesale abuses.

However, for the most part, in recent decades, the autonomy seems to be largely in tact...[/QUOTE]

Funny how you added "for the most part".
Seems we both know about the concept of "Eminent Domain".
The reason why the autonomy is largely still intact is because the land underneath the tribes is usually worthless.

Once the Government,Corporation,or real estate developer decides the land is worth something,here comes the long and lengthy court battles just to preserve what little is left for the tribes.
 
ludahai said:
I doubt there are any reliable statistics on a global basis, but let's look at some of the world's largest countries...

China-- the vast majority of people speak only Mandarin, and elderly speak only their native local language. Not many speak a foreign language like English.
India -- promotes English as a national language, but according to friends of mine who have traveled there, few people outside the cities (and even many inside the cities) can't speak it and only speak their regional language.
United States - vast majority speak only English
Indonesia -- very complicated... educated can speak Bahasa Indonesia and their local language, but the vast majority of people outside of north-eastern Sumatra or parts of Java can't speak it and only speak their local language.
Pakistan - see India
Japan -- vast majority speak only Japanese
Nigeria - English is the language of government, but only the educated can speak it. The vast majority speak only their local language
Brazil - vast majority speak only Portuguese
Russia - vast majority speak only Russian
Bangladesh - some speak English (generally educated classes) but vast majority speak only Bengali or other local languages

care to contest any of this?
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I spent about 16 months bicycling cross-country in India, and can assure you, outside of the major cities, and tourist areas, it is very rare to find someone who speaks English, unless they are training to work over seas (small percentage of the population). In fact, I was lost for about 4 days in the back country of Karnatika, and could not even find someone who spoke Hindi or Bengali (which I had a rudimentary understanding of), let alone English.
 
Verthaine said:
Once the Government,Corporation,or real estate developer decides the land is worth something,here comes the long and lengthy court battles just to preserve what little is left for the tribes.
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Does your tribe not have casinos? We have many here in Minnesota. But even at that, some tribes are making out really well, and others are out of the way, so are not doing well at all.
 
Goshin said:
For most of our history English was the de-facto national language, and if you did not speak it "tough **** amigo". It is only in recent times that we have so many people who think we should bend over backward to accomodate people who come to this country and won't learn to speak the common fracking language!

Good lord, if I moved to France, the first thing I'd start doing is LEARN to speak FRENCH!!
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I wish I could thank this post 1,000 times and more! The first thing anybody should do when even visiting another country is to at least learn a bit of whatever they speak! Not only will it make your life easier? It will make it safer.
 
BDBoop said:
Does your tribe not have casinos? We have many here in Minnesota. But even at that, some tribes are making out really well, and others are out of the way, so are not doing well at all.
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Last I check with the kin folk ( I live in New Orleans) even the tribes that have casinos are doing about as well (or slightly worse) as everyone else in this economy. And the ones that do not have casino's are struggling.

Like many other tribes,the revenue produced by the casinos is actually held "in trust" by the BIA.
You should ask the Apache Nation as to how well that's going.

You Can't Verify The Trust, Supreme Court Tells Apache Nation - Andrew Cohen - National - The Atlantic

Is it any wonder why I don't trust the government to protect my rights and freedoms vis a vis making English an "Official Language".
Or practically anything else.

Just from the tone of some of the posters on this very thread here,I don't trust them either.
But that's just my opinion.
 
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As an official language sure. I have not problem with that. As the only official language, then no. We are more than just English.
 
Verthaine said:
At one point,wasn't the language spoken by your ancestors the dominant language of their territory?
Did they require the European settlers to speak their language?
Did they try to assimulate as a whole?
Learn the language of the Cherokee/Creek as a whole
Or did they just kick your ancestors off their land like they did mine.

And that seems to be the root of the issue isn't it.
The fear of others doing to modern Americans what was done to the natives 200 to 300 years ago.
It might be moot point,but was it right what was done to our ancestors?

There is a big difference between having some ancestors that were Indian,and being half Indian.Such as myself.
I'm wondering,did you grow up on a reservation,did you go to a government Boarding school?
I grew up on the Wazi Ahanhan Oyaŋke (Pineridge Lakota ) "Res" in South Dakota in the '70's, I saw with my own eyes what the affects of 200-300 years have done. Try telling the poor of that region it's "moot point".
I remember as a little kid what happened at Wounded Knee in the 70's
I am relearning a language that was forcibly denied me as a child by our own government.

Like I've stated before on a previous post,there is a danger of an "Official Language" being turned into a "Forced Language". and that can easilly slide into a Forced Religion,and a Forced Ideology.

I've seen it happen.
Click to expand...

Verthaine just said what I was thinking, only he said it better.

And there's a xenophobic undercurrent to a lot of this "official language" talk. I could EASILY see it turned into "forced language".

Something else: A lot of the people who are clamoring to make English the "official" language ONLY speak English. I've noticed that a lot of people in Europe speak two or more languages, you're not considered educated there if you don't. So maybe instead of griping that everybody needs to speak English, all that energy would be better spent trying to learn a second language.
 
Verthaine said:
To paraphrase my grandma " A law makes a poor shield against a bullet".

Given the history of both my families ancestry,(and this country's) history,it is understandable why I am skeptical of Making English an Official Language.
Last I check,the Constitution is being torn to shreds,or at least that' what I hear both the liberals and the conservatives say.
There is absolutely no guarantee other then,"we promise to honor the treaty" to prevent wholesale abuses.

However, for the most part, in recent decades, the autonomy seems to be largely in tact...
Click to expand...

Funny how you added "for the most part".
Seems we both know about the concept of "Eminent Domain".
The reason why the autonomy is largely still intact is because the land underneath the tribes is usually worthless.

Once the Government,Corporation,or real estate developer decides the land is worth something,here comes the long and lengthy court battles just to preserve what little is left for the tribes.[/QUOTE]

Nobody is wanting to mess with your tribes!


What folks want are the people not born here to stop stealing our damn jobs and learn to speak some damn English if they gonna be sucking our tax dollars dry. It is not so damn complicated.
 
BDBoop said:
What. The. ****. Why?!
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My guess is it's because the Lakotas know what's right and they won't knuckle under.
The same reason all those other things were done to them. It's been nonstop since the 1800's.
 
stelz said:
Verthaine just said what I was thinking, only he said it better.

And there's a xenophobic undercurrent to a lot of this "official language" talk. I could EASILY see it turned into "forced language".

Something else: A lot of the people who are clamoring to make English the "official" language ONLY speak English. I've noticed that a lot of people in Europe speak two or more languages, you're not considered educated there if you don't. So maybe instead of griping that everybody needs to speak English, all that energy would be better spent trying to learn a second language.
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Are you aware of any statistics that support your claim, regarding Europeans?
 
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