Should English be declared the official language of the United States?

Risky Thicket said:

I don't know that. I'd like to see some statistics.

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Common sense should tell you that... educated people around the world can often speak two or more languages, but peasants in the countryside in most Third World countries and even lesser educated people in first world countries can generally only speak a single language.

Goshin said:

For most of our history English was the de-facto national language,

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And it still is. So why does it need to be the de jure national language too?

Goshin said:

and if you did not speak it "tough **** amigo". It is only in recent times that we have so many people who think we should bend over backward to accomodate people who come to this country and won't learn to speak the common fracking language!

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This is a myth, and I'm not sure where it comes from. Immigrants to the United States have mostly spoken languages other than English (some learned English, some didn't), and their children have always assimilated and spoken English. And we HAVE "bent over backward to accommodate people" for most of our nation's history. So I'm not seeing the problem. Are we in the midst of some crisis that threatens to fragment the nation? Because most second-generation immigrants today speak English far better than they speak their parents' language (if they speak their parents' language at all).

Good lord, if I moved to France, the first thing I'd start doing is LEARN to speak FRENCH!!

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Good for you. What does it have to do with English being the official language? What purpose does it serve, other than to discriminate against immigrants?

There is always the danger of the word "Official" being turned into "Forced" Language.
Just ask a bunch of us Native Americans who grew up in reservations prior to the 1980's.
We were forced into Government Run Boarding schools,had our hair cut(which to many tribes is sacred),our native language forbidden to be spoken,my mother's culture degrade and denigraded, and and to top it all off,forced into Christianity all in an attempt to "Americanize (i.e humanize)" us.
That's also the same reason why I cannot speak the African language of my fathers ancestors,they were forbidden to speak it by their English speaking slave masters.
As I pointed out in another thread,the same logic used to making English an "Official Language", i.e. the majority speaks it and has done so for a couple of hundred years,can be applied to changing the 1st Amendment to make Christianity the "Official Religion" of this country.

And unless I get a 100 percent guarantee that the atrocities that were commited on myself and my ancestors in the attempt to "Americanize us,(and the Laws of Physic change so it can't happen) will never happen again,then I have to vote NO.

Temporal said:

I voted no. If you forced millions of immigrants to learn English, they would certainly learn it, but they would not have a high proficiency level. That takes years of wilful practice. In the mean time, having concise info available in their mother tongue keeps things less complicated and reduces errors.

Our ancestors who helped form this country came from all over. The people who built our cities were mainly immigrants. Maintaining flexibility is what allowed all that to happen.

An American who can't speak English is still an American.

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Not entirely true. For example my great grandparents migrated from Germany. My great grandfathers both learned enough english before legally migrating to the US. After arriving the grandmothers also learned english.

IMO, many of the recent (last 10-15 years) illegal or legal migrants who have come to the US have not "melted" or assimulated into the US. They want the US to be like "the old country" and take advantage of the benifits of the US. We need a common language.

My birth father was first generation Finn American. I don't think his father ever learned English, but all his children did.

ludahai said:

The vast majority of bi/multi-lingual countries around the world have serious problems with national identity. Groups are often divided by and identify themselves by ethno-linguistic lines. Yeah, people will cite Switzerland, but it is very much the exception, and for much of its own history, there were ethno-linguistic divisions within the country. OK, SUI is one success, but the others are very few and far between. In fact, many countries around the world with many languages spoken within the country promote a single national language, including Taiwan where I currently reside, but China, Indonesia and many others do the same thing. This is to promote a common identity and to make commuication by people throughout the country easier and more efficient.

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There still are ethnolinguistic divisions within Switzerland. Our neighbors and dear friends came from Switzerland, and were in fact there during WW2. There were clear prejudices based upon the language spoken, with German-speakers, like the husband, considered top-tier and Italian-speakers, like the wife, to be third rate, and treated accordingly. Only the Romash-speakers were treated worse.

A common language really is key to a strong, vibrant, cohesive... and most important to me... equal populace, in my opinion.

Kandahar said:

And it still is. So why does it need to be the de jure national language too?



This is a myth, and I'm not sure where it comes from. Immigrants to the United States have mostly spoken languages other than English (some learned English, some didn't), and their children have always assimilated and spoken English. And we HAVE "bent over backward to accommodate people" for most of our nation's history. So I'm not seeing the problem. Are we in the midst of some crisis that threatens to fragment the nation? Because most second-generation immigrants today speak English far better than they speak their parents' language (if they speak their parents' language at all).



Good for you. What does it have to do with English being the official language? What purpose does it serve, other than to discriminate against immigrants?

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I don't know how many ways to say this: A nation needs a common tongue. It needs ONE language that everyone is supposed to be able to speak, at least well enough to hold a conversation. A sense of fellow-citizen-feeling is damn near impossible with someone you can't even communicate with. I am concerned that the rise in "diversity" and "accomodation" is going to water it down to the point where English is no longer the nation's common tongue, and where we have people who are both American citizens who can't talk to each other and feel alienated from one another.

Diversity of culture is difficult, but I think we can remain a nation and deal with it. Diversity of language, to the point where half the citizenry can't speak with the other half, will likely destroy us as a nation.

Communication is vital to diplomacy and trade. You know what the main alternative to diplomacy and trade is? Violence. Those are the three ways in which humans mainly interact. The only one that does NOT require communication is violence.

Goshin said:

For most of our history English was the de-facto national language, and if you did not speak it "tough **** amigo". It is only in recent times that we have so many people who think we should bend over backward to accomodate people who come to this country and won't learn to speak the common fracking language!

Good lord, if I moved to France, the first thing I'd start doing is LEARN to speak FRENCH!!

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No disrespect intended,but are you saying my Mothers ancestors the Lakota were speaking English for thousands of years.
What about the Cherokee,the Hopi,the Cochiti ,the Havasupai, the Hualapai Indians ,the Navajo,the Iroqios,the Blackfoot,and all the other indigenous tribe that were here for generations before the European Conquest.
Are you saying that they don't count?
That nothing of any importance or consequence EVER happened on this continent prior to the Europeans setting foot on this land.?

Exactly how many representatives from Native Tribes were there at the Constitutional Convention (for that matter,how many representatives for the blacks and woman) were there?

Just asking.

Verthaine said:

No disrespect intended,but are you saying my Mothers ancestors the Lakota were speaking English for thousands of years.
What about the Cherokee,the Hopi,the Cochiti ,the Havasupai, the Hualapai Indians ,the Navajo,the Iroqios,the Blackfoot,and all the other indigenous tribe that were here for generations before the European Conquest.
Are you saying that they don't count?
That nothing of any importance or consequence EVER happened on this continent prior to the Europeans setting foot on this land.?

Exactly how many representatives from Native Tribes were there at the Constitutional Convention (for that matter,how many representatives for the blacks and woman) were there?

Just asking.

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Bud, what happened 200-300 yrs ago is moot now. I'm talking about what is going on NOW. We need a common language. It isn't going to be Lakota, sorry; not enough people speak it.


And don't tell me I don't care about Native issues; I've got enough Cherokee and Creek in my ancestry that people sometimes notice and ask me about it. Thing is, that bird has flown long ago; we're talking about what it takes to keep a country a country today.

BDBoop said:

My birth father was first generation Finn American. I don't think his father ever learned English, but all his children did.

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My grandparents immigrated from Quebec. They both learned English and spoke it rather well...

Goshin said:

For most of our history English was the de-facto national language, and if you did not speak it "tough **** amigo". It is only in recent times that we have so many people who think we should bend over backward to accomodate people who come to this country and won't learn to speak the common fracking language!

Good lord, if I moved to France, the first thing I'd start doing is LEARN to speak FRENCH!!

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In Texas people where learning Spanish way back in the 1800's...

Verthaine said:

No disrespect intended,but are you saying my Mothers ancestors the Lakota were speaking English for thousands of years.
What about the Cherokee,the Hopi,the Cochiti ,the Havasupai, the Hualapai Indians ,the Navajo,the Iroqios,the Blackfoot,and all the other indigenous tribe that were here for generations before the European Conquest.
Are you saying that they don't count?
That nothing of any importance or consequence EVER happened on this continent prior to the Europeans setting foot on this land.?

Exactly how many representatives from Native Tribes were there at the Constitutional Convention (for that matter,how many representatives for the blacks and woman) were there?

Just asking.

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A national official language would, of course, not be applicable to tribal lands as they have autonomy.

Redress said:

In Texas people where learning Spanish way back in the 1800's...

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That might be because it was part of Mexico... and guess what, there was a revolution and Texas gained its independence from Mexico... and many of the rebels were ENGLISH-speakers...

ludahai said:

Common sense should tell you that... educated people around the world can often speak two or more languages, but peasants in the countryside in most Third World countries and even lesser educated people in first world countries can generally only speak a single language.

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Common sense and factual information are not always compatible. What you haven't given me is documentation. You've made a statement and you've asked me to accept it as "common sense". Common sense doesn't make anything true.

ludahai said:

That might be because it was part of Mexico... and guess what, there was a revolution and Texas gained its independence from Mexico... and many of the rebels were ENGLISH-speakers...

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... and we don't want the same thing happening to us, in reverse....

ludahai said:

That might be because it was part of Mexico... and guess what, there was a revolution and Texas gained its independence from Mexico... and many of the rebels were ENGLISH-speakers...

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Thank you for the history lesson...

After Texas became part of the US, people in Texas still learned Spanish to make communication easier.

There is no evidence that not having a national language is hurting the US in any way. So why change?

ludahai said:

My grandparents immigrated from Quebec. They both learned English and spoke it rather well...

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Okay? Everybody is different. How old were they when they immigrated? Did they immigrate to a city? Mine landed on a farm in Swan River, MN. The kids spoke English at school and Finnish at home.

I was at WalMart 3 days ago and NO ONE (no kidding, except employees) was speaking English! All Spanish! I was really upset. THEN to top things off I saw a Link card (tax payers money funded for food and care) that this, what is most likely, a illegal Latino woman was given. I ask her if it was easy to get. She couldnt speak ENGLISH!!!!!!!!!! :soap Now how does this illegal get OUR money when she shouldnt even be in America!??! She had to have her 11 year old daughter speak for her!
I wanted to rip that ****ing card out of her hand.

BDBoop said:

Okay? Everybody is different. How old were they when they immigrated? Did they immigrate to a city? Mine landed on a farm in Swan River, MN. The kids spoke English at school and Finnish at home.

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I sincerely doubt, however, that the kids joined a Finnish activist group, and although completely fluent in English insisted upon speaking Finnish when they attended community meetings. :mrgreen:

Redress said:

Thank you for the history lesson...

After Texas became part of the US, people in Texas still learned Spanish to make communication easier.

There is no evidence that not having a national language is hurting the US in any way. So why change?

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We have a large and growing group of immigrants, mainly hispanic, mostly from Mexico; many of whom are here illegally; many of whom are not intrested in assimilating and "Becoming American" but simply reaping the benefits of our system; many of whom are making little or no effort to learn English.

How do you get by in a country when you don't speak the most common lanugage? Answer: you hang out with those who speak YOUR language; do biz with them, work for them, identify with them. It is yet another way of creating schizm within the nation, where you have a large and growing group who does not identify with the mainstream culture at all, doesn't speak the language, and doesn't really care as long as we bend over backwards to accomodate THEM.

Too much of this and we really will become "Two Americas"... or three, or four, etc.

Maintaining a sense of "we're all Americans" can be difficult enough in the diversity that this nation has.... lacking the ability to SPEAK to each other is a good way to finish off any sense of fellow-citizenship that might have grown between this and that group.

When you walk into the middle of a group of people who are speaking a language you don't know, what is your gut reaction? Do you think of them as fellow Americans, or assume they are "other", "alien", "foreigners"? Most people assume the latter. There's a reason for that.

How do you deal with people with whom you cannot communicate? They don't speak your language and you don't speak theirs? The truth is, most of the time you shrug and walk on. Since you can't communicate with them, your ability to interact with them is severely limited.

That's no way for the citizenry of a nation to live, unable to communicate. That's why we need a common language. The proliferation of immigrants both legal and not who are NOT assimiliating is why we need to make it official.

Risky Thicket said:

Common sense and factual information are not always compatible. What you haven't given me is documentation. You've made a statement and you've asked me to accept it as "common sense". Common sense doesn't make anything true.

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I doubt there are any reliable statistics on a global basis, but let's look at some of the world's largest countries...

China-- the vast majority of people speak only Mandarin, and elderly speak only their native local language. Not many speak a foreign language like English.
India -- promotes English as a national language, but according to friends of mine who have traveled there, few people outside the cities (and even many inside the cities) can't speak it and only speak their regional language.
United States - vast majority speak only English
Indonesia -- very complicated... educated can speak Bahasa Indonesia and their local language, but the vast majority of people outside of north-eastern Sumatra or parts of Java can't speak it and only speak their local language.
Pakistan - see India
Japan -- vast majority speak only Japanese
Nigeria - English is the language of government, but only the educated can speak it. The vast majority speak only their local language
Brazil - vast majority speak only Portuguese
Russia - vast majority speak only Russian
Bangladesh - some speak English (generally educated classes) but vast majority speak only Bengali or other local languages

care to contest any of this?

DiAnna said:

I sincerely doubt, however, that the kids joined a Finnish activist group, and although completely fluent in English insisted upon speaking Finnish when they attended community meetings. :mrgreen:

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Yes, they did. I believe the meetings were called "Saturday Night Saunas."

BDBoop said:

Okay? Everybody is different. How old were they when they immigrated? Did they immigrate to a city? Mine landed on a farm in Swan River, MN. The kids spoke English at school and Finnish at home.

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small rural state, where most Quebecois immigrants of the era settled (northern New England states -- mine in NH)... not sure how old they were...

BDBoop said:

Yes, they did. I believe the meetings were called "Saturday Night Saunas."

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Not exactly La Raza, Aztlan or Reconquista.

The Giant Noodle said:

I was at WalMart 3 days ago and NO ONE (no kidding, except employees) was speaking English! All Spanish! I was really upset. THEN to top things off I saw a Link card (tax payers money funded for food and care) that this, what is most likely, a illegal Latino woman was given. I ask her if it was easy to get. She couldnt speak ENGLISH!!!!!!!!!! :soap Now how does this illegal get OUR money when she shouldnt even be in America!??! She had to have her 11 year old daughter speak for her!
I wanted to rip that ****ing card out of her hand.

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Just because she couldn't speak English does not mean she is here illegally. Many immigrate legally and have difficulty learning the language, particularly Spanish-speakers because as I've pointed out they can get everything they need from tv/radio to restaurants to retail establishments, all of which are bilingual. In too many places one cannot even get an entry level job at a fast food joint or a WalMart without being bilingual. That is what chaps my hide. But I do not presume that any non-English-speaking Latinas (females are Lantina, males are Latino) are automatically illegal. That would be terribly unfair to those who have come here legally on work visas.

Chances are that her daughter is a US citizen, and the welfare card you saw is to support the child. I understand where you're coming from here. I too result the ease with which illegals using stolen ID's can head straight for the welfare office, which btw is forbidden by law to ask about immigration status, to stick their hands in the taxpayers' pocket. Just cautioning you about presuming that everyone who can't speak English must be illegal. I know for a fact that is untrue.