View Poll Results: Is abortion wrong?

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  • Yes

    27 40.30%
  • No

    37 55.22%
  • Unsure

    3 4.48%
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Thread: Is Abortion wrong?

  1. #231
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    Re: Is Abortion wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by RamFel View Post
    It is a person.
    What makes a ZEF a person?

    Quote Originally Posted by RamFel View Post
    Liberals are always saying that the joined egg & sperm isn't life, but this is merely an excuse so that they can support abortion.
    It is life, but does that make it a person.

    Quote Originally Posted by RamFel View Post
    Aren't liberals supposed to be the compassionate ones?
    I wouldn't know. I'm not a liberal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Not my argument, but cute. My argument is simple, and very basic. I imagine you are understanding exactly what I said, but please yourself by missing it for debating purposes. Lets say it again, the baby is functioning while it is working to a higher function. Are you part of this? Yes and no. While it is true that without you the baby would die, and its true that without you it wouldn't exist, its not true that you are actively involved in baby developing from one functional order to another. The difference in the example is pretty glaring to me.
    When an organism is connected to the bloodstream of another organism, it is usually called a parasite. In order for the ZEF to be considered a person, it needs to have existed as a separate being - an individual.
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  2. #232
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    Re: Is Abortion wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaBrat View Post
    i agree. Takes two to tango, two should be in decision making process. I also agree with you about cases or rape and the morning after pill.

    BDBoop... I think you are correct, it doesnt involve a lot of cases. But it is there. I pesonally know of two women who have had abortions behind their SO's backs after the man telling them they wanted the child.
    I know a woman who did that. Because her boyfriend beat the hell out of her when she said she wanted to abort. She aborted anyway, and dumped the loser.

    Women don't do this to be spiteful. A lot of the time, they do it because their partner is manipulative or abusive.

  3. #233
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    Re: Is Abortion wrong?

    I can't help but notice that many on the Pro-Life side have a bad habit of asserting their religious beliefs as if they were facts.
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  4. #234
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    Re: Is Abortion wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    I can't help but notice that many on the Pro-Life side have a bad habit of asserting their religious beliefs as if they were facts.
    I cant help but notice:

    1. not many folks here are talking about religion, we are talking about abortion.

    2.That anytime anyone doesnt have anything useful to add to a conversation, they belittle someone else or belittle religion.

  5. #235
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    Re: Is Abortion wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaBrat View Post
    I cant help but notice:

    1. not many folks here are talking about religion, we are talking about abortion.
    Abortion is a religious issue. The only way to consider the embryos that are aborted, or, at least, something like 90% of them, as human beings, or being equivalent to human beings, is to imbue them with a magical essence. This religious belief has been stated numerous times as if it were a fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaBrat View Post
    2.That anytime anyone doesnt have anything useful to add to a conversation, they belittle someone else or belittle religion.
    I've got plenty to say about it, and have not been shy about sharing my ideas on the subject. However, this is not a particularly complex issue. It's essentially a debate between rational utilitarians, who define human beings in terms of biology, and religious deontologists, who believe that human beings are defined by a magic essence. Theres' really nothing else to discuss. The entire debate reduces to these two, competing, and, incompatible viewpoints. People can either change their minds, or not. Until everyone, or, at least, the overwhelming majority takes one side or the other, the debate will continue, indefinately.

    Pointing out that there is absolutely no evidence to support religious contentions is not only not mean or insensitive, it isn't unfair, either. That is the definition of a fairness. This is just a special rule of conversation that applies to no other subject. No-one is ever obligated to simply respect and accept anyone's opinion, on anything. People engage in raucous, impassioned debates about everything from sports to politics, yet you expect me to stand idly mute while dogmatists make extreme, and completely unsubstantiated claims about magic essences, or the origins of the universe, etc. That is unfair, and I absolutely refuse to live by this absurd prohibition.
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    All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume. -Noam Chomsky

  6. #236
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    Re: Is Abortion wrong?

    I know a lot of very NON religious folks who are very pro life. I also know a lot of religious people who are pro choice. Religion doesnt always dictate your thoughts on abortion. Your own personal morals and beliefs do, with or without religion.

    and no...i dont expect you to stand by and do anything. You made a comment, so did I. It is what it is.

  7. #237
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    Re: Is Abortion wrong?

    Yes abortion is wrong, its sick and your terminating a life.
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  8. #238
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    Re: Is Abortion wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Highway View Post
    Yes abortion is wrong, its sick and your terminating a life.
    And your alternative is?

  9. #239
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    Re: Is Abortion wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaBrat View Post
    I know a lot of very NON religious folks who are very pro life.
    First of all, the belief that human life is defined by a magic essence, while religious, is nondenominational. One need not even necessarily believe in god, although, it is rare. The point is there is no other way to justify equivocating a zygote and a person.

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaBrat View Post
    I also know a lot of religious people who are pro choice. Religion doesnt always dictate your thoughts on abortion. Your own personal morals and beliefs do, with or without religion...
    You don't have to be religious to be Pro-Choice. You do have to be religious, (See above.) to some degree, to be Pro-Life.

    Moreover, to clarify, I am not completely intolerant of said religious beliefs, crazy as they may be. However, I most certainly do object to people treating them as if they were facts, or presuming that myself, or anyone else, is under any obligation to live by their religious beliefs.
    Economic Left/Right: -7.25, Authoritarian/Libertarian:-7.13
    All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume. -Noam Chomsky

  10. #240
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    Re: Is Abortion wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaBrat View Post
    I know a lot of very NON religious folks who are very pro life. I also know a lot of religious people who are pro choice. Religion doesnt always dictate your thoughts on abortion. Your own personal morals and beliefs do, with or without religion.

    and no...i dont expect you to stand by and do anything. You made a comment, so did I. It is what it is.
    Same. I'm a non-religious yet spiritual person who is firmly pro-choice.

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