View Poll Results: What should the US do about nato?

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  • Don't change anything; keep the status quo

    3 15.00%
  • Exit NATO completely

    6 30.00%
  • Require more stringent contribution from member-states

    9 45.00%
  • Exit NATO and create a new alliance with strong nations

    2 10.00%
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Thread: Future of US in NATO

  1. #1
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    Future of US in NATO

    A poll was taken this week and only 49% of Americans say we should stick with NATO (Only 49% Think U.S. Still Needs to Belong to NATO - Rasmussen Reports™). We have seen during this Libya conflict that NATO is severely weakened without the US running the show (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/11/wo...ates.html?_r=1) and also here (Gates blasts NATO - The Washington Post). Basically, what we have is an alliance that the US gets no benefit from in terms of her own security. There are 3 (MAYBE 4) nations in all of the 28 member states that benefit US security, and that is England for sure, France for sure, Germany somewhat, and maybe if you want to count Italy. These nations, aside from Italy, keep a relatively tough military budget (all beside Italy) of above 50 billion yearly, though Germany even is cutting military spending. Due to austerity measures in all of Europe, we've seen some serious issues with them aiding us. Now, of course, the US is the big power, but what benefit are we getting from spending billions a year on the defense of tiny nations like Romania or Iceland?

    My personal belief is that we need to reevaluate the whole thing. There are nations in there which have absolutely no benefit to the United States, and there are nations across the world with strong militaries whom are our allies, that we are not in a cooperative pact with, namely South Korea and Israel. I think that simply pulling out is a bad idea, because we do have some benefits, like bases in Poland that are going up now, etc, but I do simply think that if these nations want to get defense from the largest military power in the world, they need to have a certain monetary and troop contribution to remain, along with allowing basing in their nations.

    Some also argue we should leave and create a new alliance, with heavier joining requirements, but what's the point of that, if we are just going to do the same thing but require more stringent measures?

    So, what do you think? So many Americans according to that poll say we should leave, but I just don't think that's a good idea, considering we've got some powerful allies in there and the basing component is vital to our security.
    Last edited by Gargantuan; 06-14-11 at 01:20 PM.

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    Re: Future of US in NATO

    NATO does not benefit the US, it benefits Europe. We have no reason to be in NATO.
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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    Re: Future of US in NATO

    get out of it president hussein wants to just spend spend spend more money to nato instead of fight like men we shodul be commanding libya not some french dope but thats right president hussein leads from behind not from forward

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    Re: Future of US in NATO

    Considering how much work NATO has put in over the last decade in aiding the U.S. (Afghanistan, Syria, etc.), it would be a slap in the face to abandon our allies because they aren't doing exactly what we want them to do at all times. Canada, for example, lead the entire southern front in Afghanistan for the majority of Bush's office. Are we just going to ditch them?

    If we are withdrawing from NATO for financial reasons, I could understand that - but the rhetoric I'm seeing coming out of the right wing in particular is somewhat disgraceful. These nations are our allies, we should stick together.

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    Re: Future of US in NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Considering how much work NATO has put in over the last decade in aiding the U.S. (Afghanistan, Syria, etc.), it would be a slap in the face to abandon our allies because they aren't doing exactly what we want them to do at all times. Canada, for example, lead the entire southern front in Afghanistan for the majority of Bush's office. Are we just going to ditch them?

    If we are withdrawing from NATO for financial reasons, I could understand that - but the rhetoric I'm seeing coming out of the right wing in particular is somewhat disgraceful. These nations are our allies, we should stick together.
    But that's only a small fraction of them. Canada has not been doing much lately and needs to step it up. England/France have always been with us apart from Iraq which was justifiable on France's part. I know Germany doesn't want to go into Libya which is fine so they upped their troops in Afghanistan. But the point is these small nations that have military budgets barely touching 1 billion are protected by us and what do we get from it other than basing (some of them don't even allow bases).

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    Re: Future of US in NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Gargantuan View Post
    But that's only a small fraction of them. Canada has not been doing much lately and needs to step it up. England/France have always been with us apart from Iraq which was justifiable on France's part. I know Germany doesn't want to go into Libya which is fine so they upped their troops in Afghanistan. But the point is these small nations that have military budgets barely touching 1 billion are protected by us and what do we get from it other than basing (some of them don't even allow bases).
    Last time I checked, NATO is not America's personal army. We co-operate based out of mutual interest and respect for similar international goals. Canada doesn't have to step up anything. We had no business going into Iraq in the first place.

    Your comments are what I'm talking about. It's total disrespect to our allies and the history we have had together. "Do what we say or we'll pull out of NATO" - ok then, pull out. You'll just be showing your ass to our allies and making fools of our nation.

    EDIT: Forgot to address you point about the budgets. The U.S. military budget has increased significantly in the past 20-30 years. NATO doesn't need other nations to fund more, what the U.S. needs to do is change its foreign policy so that we are not the be all and end all of everyone else's survival, or so that we are no longer world police.
    Last edited by Temporal; 06-14-11 at 05:42 PM.

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    Re: Future of US in NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Last time I checked, NATO is not America's personal army. We co-operate based out of mutual interest and respect for similar international goals. Canada doesn't have to step up anything. We had no business going into Iraq in the first place.

    Your comments are what I'm talking about. It's total disrespect to our allies and the history we have had together. "Do what we say or we'll pull out of NATO" - ok then, pull out. You'll just be showing your ass to our allies and making fools of our nation.
    But what benefit are we and the allies who actually make an effort with NATO getting from smaller nations who don't even spend 1 billion on defense?

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    Re: Future of US in NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Gargantuan View Post
    But what benefit are we and the allies who actually make an effort with NATO getting from smaller nations who don't even spend 1 billion on defense?
    The benefits may not be military; they may be economic, strategic, or relate to other partnerships.

    Alliances are complicated and are not always based on black and white factors like whether or not a country is trying to match our own military spending. U.S. foreign policy is ultimately about self-interest and so the money that we put into our own military has far reaching benefits to us, when it is applied properly. What's happening in the Middle East right now represents a failure in the application of our foreign policy and our military. If we had succeeded, we would have acquired new capital gains to help our dwindling economy (i.e. natural resources), but our mission is grueling and it's part of what is crippling our budget.

    The U.S. has never had a problem with NATO in the way you are suggesting. What you are rehashing are right wing talking points that are actually related to finding excuses for restricting the U.S. budget. No one wants to come out and say that the U.S. military needs to be slashed because the U.S. is spending too much pork; no, they have to blame other nations to make it look justifiable. America is #1, right? So yeah... we have to make it seem like it's really someone else's problem.

    In any case, once we are forced to slash out military budget, other nations will have to step up their game anyway. But let's not confuse what the root of the current argument is.

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    Re: Future of US in NATO

    It isnt very likely that other nations will have the ability to attack the US anytime soon. Our involvement in NATO has been traditionally to curb the rise of soviet bloc countries. It has the added impact of promoting economic alliances. there really is no benefit to ending our NATO relationship. However...the UN is a completely different animal.

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    Re: Future of US in NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Last time I checked, NATO is not America's personal army. We co-operate based out of mutual interest and respect for similar international goals. Canada doesn't have to step up anything. We had no business going into Iraq in the first place.

    Your comments are what I'm talking about. It's total disrespect to our allies and the history we have had together. "Do what we say or we'll pull out of NATO" - ok then, pull out. You'll just be showing your ass to our allies and making fools of our nation.

    EDIT: Forgot to address you point about the budgets. The U.S. military budget has increased significantly in the past 20-30 years. NATO doesn't need other nations to fund more, what the U.S. needs to do is change its foreign policy so that we are not the be all and end all of everyone else's survival, or so that we are no longer world police.
    I don't disagree with the last point. But nations who contribute nothing to NATO do not deserve membership plain and simple. My position is not to exit, but to require more stringent contribution from member-states. Do you really consider Poland and Romania to have been excellent contributors to our history? I'm not going after England/France/Germany, but Spain has done nothing, Portugal nothing, etc. And I left out Canada because we already have cooperative defense with them in terms of NORAD.

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