View Poll Results: Which of these best describes you?

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  • Religious and Liberal

    3 6.98%
  • Nonreligious and Liberal

    7 16.28%
  • Religious and Conservative

    8 18.60%
  • Nonreligious and Conservative

    5 11.63%
  • Religious and Independent

    5 11.63%
  • Nonreligious and Indepedent

    10 23.26%
  • Other

    5 11.63%
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Thread: Religion in Politics

  1. #51
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    Re: Religion in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    Why should I concern myself with the political opinions of vermin?
    You really shouldn't use that word with that avatar.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 06-15-11 at 05:35 PM.

  2. #52
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    Re: Religion in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Of course it's hyperbole. However, the fact remains that a legislator's religious belief is a major factor determining why people vote for him/her. People want to see legislators who mirror their own religious values in the government. Once in government, legislators are in a position to impose religious dogma through legislative means... and many have done so. When this occurs, the beliefs of a majority religion intrinsically colors the legislative process. When every session of congress opens with a Christian prayer, then I believe that I am correct in my presumption that said religion is being recognized by the governmental process in a way that I disapprove of. My government is asking a specific religion's diety to "guide" them. When I sit in a church and the preacher tells me that if I do not vote for candidate A over candidate B then I will go to hell, the church is most assuredly pressing itself into the governmental process. When candidates who are non-religious have no chance of being elected to state or national public office, then the church is again is shown to be the crux of who is and is not allowed governmental power.

    Therefore, the statement that the church IS the government, hyperbole though it may be, is not necessarily incorrect.

    As for who is an "authentic Christian" and who is not, that's not for me to say. That would be between them and whatever God they believe in. I strongly... strongly... support the freedom of all Americans to worship as they please. However, given the clashes between religious groups lately, including the Christian-led anti-mosque silliness of the past years and the histrionic reaction of so many to anyone who does not believe at all, I'm thinking a hell of a lot of Americans are pretty selective about who is and is not allowed such freedoms.

    This is one reason I stay away from religious forums. I see no need to intrude upon people's discussion of their own beliefs. Also, I note the reaction to those who do not share them. When a viewpoint you could not agree with mixed religion and government you, according to your own words, had difficulty even being polite to me although we have gotten along quite well in the past and agreed with each other frequently! People do not like their religions to be challenged. I do not challenge them. I simply do not like them being a cornerstone of the government, and those who run it.

    Well Diana, you and I seem to have a widely diverging view of the character of government, who runs it, and what its cornerstone is.

    Personally I think if it was actually being run by genuine Christians who lived what they believed and voted their consciences within the bounds of the Constitution, we'd be a lot better off than we currently are.

    To me though, I certainly don't perceive our Government as being run by the Church. For starters, which Church? Catholic, Mormon, Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist? Seperate critters who don't always see eye to eye, you know? I suppose you mean Christianity in general, as a principle... but frankly I don't see that either. Not remotely. I see hardly any Federal law that I can point to and say "that originated because of Christian beliefs". Rarely any State law, once in a while. Local, here and there yes. So the Congress says a traditional prayer... anyone can mouth a prayer, doesn't mean there's an ounce of sincerity in it.

    Most legislation these days seems to come from the government's desire to maintain, uphold, and expand it's power over its citizens. Much legislation appears to be in the service of special intrests, mainly corporate, making it easier for certain big corps and big-money contributors to do what they want to do. The rest is mostly pork, vote buying and the occasional attack of bad conscience.

    Once in a blue moon we actually get a piece of pragmatically useful legislation, but if you blink you're liable to miss it.

    Sure as sunrise, I don't see Congress legislating with Christianity as its cornerstone. Not for a long time now.

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  3. #53
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    Re: Religion in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Well Diana, you and I seem to have a widely diverging view of the character of government, who runs it, and what its cornerstone is.

    Personally I think if it was actually being run by genuine Christians who lived what they believed and voted their consciences within the bounds of the Constitution, we'd be a lot better off than we currently are.
    True, we disagree about religion's impact upon government. I do agree with you that the word "cornerstone" was a poor choice; obviously the true cornerstone of our government is the constitution. Interpretation of the constitution, however, often differs between the religious and the secular. Separation of church and state, for example.

    To me though, I certainly don't perceive our Government as being run by the Church. For starters, which Church? Catholic, Mormon, Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist? Seperate critters who don't always see eye to eye, you know? I suppose you mean Christianity in general, as a principle... but frankly I don't see that either. Not remotely. I see hardly any Federal law that I can point to and say "that originated because of Christian beliefs". Rarely any State law, once in a while. Local, here and there yes. So the Congress says a traditional prayer... anyone can mouth a prayer, doesn't mean there's an ounce of sincerity in it.
    Yes, I refer to the generalized "Christian" religion, which we both know contains dozens of different faiths with specific differences in belief. Sincerity of prayer doesn't matter to me; the fact that religion is brought into the governmental chambers matters to me. The fact that the words "Under God" was inserted into our secular Pledge of Alligiance matters to me. Putting "In God We Trust" on our money matters to me. The fact that an individual must declare a religious faith even to be elected to national office matters to me. When abortion was illegal, that was a faith-based law that mattered to me. The attempts to thwart SSM, thus continuing the legalized discrimination of homosexuals, is faith-based and matters to me.

    Most legislation these days seems to come from the government's desire to maintain, uphold, and expand it's power over its citizens. Much legislation appears to be in the service of special intrests, mainly corporate, making it easier for certain big corps and big-money contributors to do what they want to do. The rest is mostly pork, vote buying and the occasional attack of bad conscience.
    I totally agree.

  4. #54
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    Re: Religion in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Really? You're going to give credit for the civil rights movement to religion? There are lots of religious people out there, how can you tie the fact that he was a reverend to all of his noble works?
    Because He did. Ditto with the abolitionists.

  5. #55
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    Re: Religion in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by ADG View Post
    For a Republican, belief in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour is a prerequisite in most cases. I believe Ron Paul breaks this mold, but him aside, most Republicans know that to appeal to the conservative base you must believe in a Christian God. And while you may not believe that religion and politics should be combined, many Republicans do not share this belief. To many, the USA is a Christian nation, founded on Christian ideals by Good Christian men.

    So is this an issue? You betcha, and it is why we have more than one party!
    Shallow would be an understatement for this post. The last sentence is total bull****, without question.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  6. #56
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    Re: Religion in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    Like that whole an atheist was elected in Ashville, NC and there was a law saying you had to be Christian to hold office?
    Well that isn't possible nationally because the Constitution forbids it.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  7. #57
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    Re: Religion in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Perhaps I have just watched too many documentaries about religion in the past year, but I just find it disturbing how much it influences people's lives. The last one I watched quoted a poll that said around 20% of people believe the rapture will happen within the next 50 years and another 20% or so weren't sure. That means around 40%+ of the voting bloc believes the rapture may or may not happen within the next 50 years. Really?

    Combine that with the evangelical movement that has nearly unlimited funds, tax exempt status, and a long arm in politics, and it gets a little weird in my opinion. As I said on another thread, it is hard to debate with a person whose coup de grace is, "Well I'll be going to heaven and you're going to burn in the lake of fire". And while many do not say this aloud, if you are a devout Christian, that kind of stuff has to be constantly on your mind.

    *Edit:

    Also, if 40% of the people believe there may be a rapture soon, what motivation do these people have to do anything to fix the world? What do they care? It's probably going to end soon and then they get to go spend eternity enjoying bliss.
    And what are the results of all this? Gays and abortionist have had more influence on controversial laws passed then Christians. So what is your real concern?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  8. #58
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    Re: Religion in Politics

    I haven't read beyond the OP, but I don't get saying religion has no place in politics, politics is about forcing your beliefs on others, if your beliefs are religious, so be it, forcing religion on an atheist or someone with a different religion no different from forcing democracy on a monarchist, or bureaucracy on a libertarian. I can understand separation of church and state, but separation of religion and politics is stupid.
    So follow me into the desert
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  9. #59
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    Re: Religion in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The belief in upholding and proliferating liberty and freedom is one of the fundamentals for our government, however. Not theocracy. My point was that your religious beliefs have limits when talking about the use of them through law. You cannot infringe upon the rights of others. It's really nothing more than that.

    Your last statement, BTW, is why we have the 2nd amendment.
    I'm sick of seeing this word thrown out like it's a imminent threat to society. It has never been a threat since the founding of this nation. It's total bull****, and the only reason it's used is to marginalize religious people, and hopefully run them out of the country. The rabid atheists in this country feel so threatened by a group of people who believe in treating people nice and living in peace; it sick as hell is what it is.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  10. #60
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    Re: Religion in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The rabid atheists in this country feel so threatened by a group of people who believe in treating people nice and living in peace; it sick as hell is what it is.
    What color is the sky on your world? If they believed in treating people nice and living in peace, they'd be goddamned Quakers. Nobody's afraid of the Quakers taking over the country.

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